is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?

[myrrh]

Originally Posted by Sean

It's tough being omnivores who have evolved such a heightened aptitude for empathy. I think that's one of the reasons that we as a species still rely so heavily on religious concepts to get by in life - religion allows us to view ourselves as special, even superior to other species. The pain a cow, or a chicken, or even a fish feels isn't a major consideration as we eat a steak, pork chop, or fish n' chips because those animals weren't made in "God's image" like we were. So if you remove the conceit of religious beliefs from the equation, the fish comparison actually does become relevant. What life is worth valuing? If we're willing to be so flippant about the lives of the animals we eat and use for clothing and such, then why is a cluster of cells that hasn't even begun to resemble a human being yet held as so sacred?

Well, your point is only really relevant in accordance to Christianity, which views that Man was created in "God's image". Most other religions, don't have that concept.

However, the fact is that we, as humans, are superior to the rest of the animals. And this is because we have the ability to choose and think out our actions. We don't just go on instinct like the animals do. This makes us vastly different than the animals. When a lion is hungry, it is going to go hunt and kill some other animal to satisfy it's hunger. When we are hungry, we can choose to wait awhile before eating, or not even eat at all.

This is why the fish thing doesn't hold water for me. However, an interesting thing could be said that because people like you (no offense, here) hold this opinion, it actually allows humans to act like animals. After all, if we evolved from animals, then there is justification for us acting like them. And this is where the whole marriage thing comes into play. Marriage is yet another thing that separates us from the animals. If you come out of the club at the end of the night and see the dogs running around, you will see them all chasing down that one female dog. Then they get, and do their thing, and away she goes. How is this not different then a lot of human behavior, especially in modern times? Seriously, think about it.

Originally Posted by Sean

Aside from religiously-based views of homosexuality, what's the problem with affording all the same rights to gays that straight people enjoy? As I've said before, the whole concept of marriage being between a man and a woman made far more sense in the past when procreation was a necessity for survival - families needing more hands to tend the fields, do the chores and such. But at this point in our history, marriage has simply become a public declaration and celebration of our commitment to the person we've chosen to share our lives with.

I may have used to agree with you here, but I don't anymore. This is because I have been doing a lot of research about older civilizations, and to be honest, I don't think that they were much different then us today. Sure we may have cars and phones etc, and they had horses and donkeys and message boys, but aside from the material way of living, we are the same. If you look into the way past civilizations developed, they are the same as us. At a certain point in Roman history, procreation was now longer a necessity for survival. Then came the Islamic Empire, then came the Renaissance. Once a culture moves from a total farming life to a city based life, then it is no longer needed to procreate for survival's sake. We, at least in the Western world, are at this point again. However, this could change in a heartbeat, like it did when WWII happened. And that was just sixty years ago.

Originally Posted by Sean

how about children? How do those who oppose gay adoption justify the consequences of that position? Why would they rather see a child denied a loving home at all than see them raised by a loving gay couple?

To be honest, this is just a personal moral issue. There is really nothing to say that a gay couple CAN'T raise a child, and give him or her a loving home etc. However, from my point of view, a person is not born as a homosexual. People may be born with desires that are of a person of the same sex, and in the case of a homosexual, he or she is choosing to act on those desires. In my system of morals, to act upon these desires is a huge sin. This is because by acting upon such desires goes completely against the natural disposition of man.

Because of the above, I can never say that it would be 'okay' for a gay couple to adopt or raise a child. Once again, it is not because they are incapable of it - I personally know a Lesbian couple who raised a girl who is 21 now and she is, in a general sense, perfectly normal. It is simply because I could not put a child into a situation that I consider to be morally wrong. To me it is similar to giving a child to an alcoholic (who is of the non-violent type). The alcoholic could be perfectly capable of providing a loving and caring home, however most people would object to giving a child to him or her. Why? Because most people think that it is wrong to expose a child to that type of behavior.

So where do we draw the line? This is the issue I have with how society is going. There are no longer any lines to be draw, and everything is becoming 'okay'. This to me is bad, and the 'traditions' of society are there for a reason, even if we no longer remember what that reason is.