is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" hasn't got much sway in aquariums.

Great line.

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

If we followed your line of discussion there would be thousands of special cases we would have to entertain. That's just not practical. That's why lawmakers turn to reasoning.... Nuances are important after you've laid out the groundwork. I don't like to build my house with the furniture first, basically.

I think that's kind of the point. In the case of abortion, there are so many variables, so many unique cases, so many significant possibilities to consider that it seems counter-productive to me to even try boiling it down to simple, blanket legislation. Any law put on the books, even about late-term abortions and such, really requires a laundry list of caveats and exceptions written into it in order to be at all constructive. And not to keep pointing this back to Cacophony, but I think her first-hand examples along with her hypothetical situation illustrated that point very clearly.

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

Speaking of that reasoning. When it comes to our little misunderstanding... if the fetus is not a unique individual, and its not an extension of the female form... what could it be? Nothing. That is why the polar opposites interpretation was sound.

Not necessarily. I mean, this question strikes right at the heart of what really drives the abortion debate, which is at what point does an individual life begin? Personally, I don't consider an early cluster of developing cells to be an individual life yet. There's no functional structure as far as the concept of a body is concerned, no brain to provide a consciousness, no chemical reactions to induce emotion....it's a cluster of cells that is relatively quickly forming into what will one day be a tiny person. I don't say that to detract from the incredible nature of the cluster of cells, I'm just referring to the issue of what constitutes an individual life and where I personally stand on it.

Of course when that cell cluster actually becomes a living, conscious, emotional individual is a question that I don't think anyone has been able to answer, so I have no idea when that cut-off mark would be. But even after that point has come and gone, there are still many, many situations that people may find themselves in where they have to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the baby, and it's simply not my place to make that choice for them. It seems to me that this is where you and I really part ways. Overall, when you consider everyone's unique health situations, everyone's individual financial situations, everyone's unique social situations (abusive homes, dangerous environments, etc), everyone's religious beliefs, everyone's ages....all the major factors that would play into this kind of a difficult decision....then I just cannot bring myself to feel any kind of confidence about telling them "sorry, but your situation isn't exempt from the law that restricts you from having an abortion. You'll just have to accept that you're going to live the rest of your life in financial ruin/bring a baby into an abusive situation/give birth to a rape baby/die/etc."