Do you feel guilty about downloading OwB?

[kagenaki koe]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

there's a seperate thread for the 3 people to repeat whats been discussed and rehashed for weeks already.

whew, at least i know there will be 2 other people discussing with me

[hypeless]

preordered the special order long before anything was available anywhere, and last night I bought the album on iTunes Japan for the bonus tracks.

Paying up-front for the album during preorder absolved me of any guilt I might have had otherwise. Paying for the album twice just seals the deal.

To me, downloading the album early is far less of a crime than releasing bonus tracks in some markets and not in others - that's just plain cruel.

[Lx_Nen]

The simple answer for me is no.

I have a flac rip of the Japanese version in my car, and a paid for Japanese version coming to me by airmail. If I hadn't downloaded, I'd just have made that rip myself for in-car use (ever since I had a Japanese double CD worth a fortune stolen from my car, and long out of print irreplaceable CD scratched in my glovebox, I only use CDRs in the car). All I'm doing is timeshifting the arrival of the CD I've already paid for. I'll even get that 'unwrapping the new album' feeling when it does arrive, because of the bonus DVD.

I have no moral issues with 'try before I buy' torrenting, because I buy lots of CDs that I wouldn't have without bitotrrent.. and in this case it's 'try after I buy, but before delivery', which is even less morally objectionable to me.

Do I feel guilty about seeding back about 7% of the flac rip before I the download finished and I jumped off the torrent? Hmm... yes actually, I do.

I only feel ok with seeding things that are long out of print, and I fall back on the admittedly weak reasoning that if I didn't seed new albums someone else would. I jumped off the torrent asap, as I always do with new releases.

[toilet trained]

well...seems like im missing out, didnt even know there was a leaked copy.

funny enough, i still like buying CD's over digital downloads (which is do also legally, at times) becuase i listen to most of my music in the car, and it doesnt have mp3 capablities. maybe im living in the past?

anyway, whats this about a dvd box thing?

p.s...they should doa radiohead and allow people to download thier album and name their price. this should sort the real fans from the leechers

[Future Proof]

Rick and Karl are in the new issue of Teen Beat???

OMG!

[TheBang]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

holden, the laws about buying and selling promos are black and white. it is illegal for shops to sell promos. it says so on the promo sticker. that copy belongs to the record label. the scenario is no different. both ways you're illegally obtaining the album before it's released to your region. these laws aren't enforced, but it's still illegal. it's just what laws you choose to follow.

Actually, property law and First Sale doctrine pretty much trump those little stamps the record companies put on the promos. Well, it's currently being tested in litigation, but I think the EFF's arguments will win.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...rap-eulas.html

Originally Posted by geoff

Let's be honest, there is definitely a 4th category of people who pirate instead of buying, flat out. I have friends who even pirate from their favorite bands.

But the "try and buy" people do somewhat make up for that.

To some small extent, but I think in reality, losses due to the flat-out pirates far outweighs any benefit gained from the "try and buyers".

Originally Posted by big screen satellite

those who download, because they want to hear the album because its free, but would never have bought it in the first place - not actually a loss in sales...

Originally Posted by geoff

Obviously, the "never would have bought in the first place" . . . people don't tip the scales either way.

Actually, I have a problem with the people in this category. The ones who say "Well, this album I downloaded is not a lost sale since I never would have bought it in the first place," or "Downloading Photoshop isn't stealing, because I never could have afforded to buy it anyway." I find those rationales to be extremely disingenuous. The reason being is that these people are deriving enjoyment and utility from what they downloaded. Just because they would never have plunked down the money for it, doesn't mean they can suddenly enjoy the benefits of the works. That's just wrong.

[toilet trained]

^^^
what about if you use a downloaded version of Ablteton, and make some really crakin tunes on it...and then share your tunes. is there a point where the enjoyment others can get from your tunes outweighs the 1000 youv essentially gotten away with?

i always thought that line to be one hip-hop track and two electro-house tracks. get them down pat, and the programme is yours....seriously

[stimpee]

I think that downloading the album isnt such a bad thing.however, distributing it is. with a download youre only damaging the experience for yourself. by spreading it then you are contributing -even in the smallest way- to piracy and harming sales of the album.

thats why i dont care if you download it but i dont like to see any links to possible downloads on this forum.

[big screen satellite]

Originally Posted by stimpee

I think that downloading the album isnt such a bad thing.however, distributing it is. with a download youre only damaging the experience for yourself. by spreading it then you are contributing -even in the smallest way- to piracy and harming sales of the album.

thats why i dont care if you download it but i dont like to see any links to possible downloads on this forum.

thats kinda like seeing a car crash and not helping, imo

its ok for someone to distribute it and then everyone to grab it, but those people who do grab it cannot then share it... its backwards logic really... but i kinda get the point here on this site specifically

also its kinda like someone smashing the window of a shop, the first crime, then everyone else (looters) running in and grabbing the goods, the second crime...

i agree it shouldn't be shared on a site 'partly' linked with the band, and its not hard for people to find a leaked copy... so sharing here is wrong, but sharing the wealth elsewhere - thats a matter of moral conciousness for the individual -

if i had something worthwhile i'd share with a friend, but wouldn't wholly upload an album to a random site for all and sundry, because that to me personally would be damaging to the band...

the second issue is sharing after the album is officially released - is that more or less damaging???

[stimpee]

Originally Posted by big screen satellite

thats kinda like seeing a car crash and not helping, imo

its ok for someone to distribute it and then everyone to grab it, but those people who do grab it cannot then share it... its backwards logic really... but i kinda get the point here on this site specifically

also its kinda like someone smashing the window of a shop, the first crime, then everyone else (looters) running in and grabbing the goods, the second crime...

i agree it shouldn't be shared on a site 'partly' linked with the band, and its not hard for people to find a leaked copy... so sharing here is wrong, but sharing the wealth elsewhere - thats a matter of moral conciousness for the individual -

if i had something worthwhile i'd share with a friend, but wouldn't wholly upload an album to a random site for all and sundry, because that to me personally would be damaging to the band...

the second issue is sharing after the album is officially released - is that more or less damaging???

i dont agree with your analogy about a car crash at all. people maybe dying in a car crash. and it has nothing in common with file downloading. or maybe youd care to elaborate.

as for the looting, that analogy doesnt work either. it would only work if you were stealing something from the window that you might have purchased in the near future, and the stuff that youve stolen isnt as easily replicated as an mp3.

If you want an analogy, then this is like busting the end-drug user and not the dealer. downloaders are drug users. if you start distributing the album then you become the dealer.