Iranian uranium

[Rog]

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

Isreal should be wiped from the map, just as Nazi Germany was.

I am no lover of Israel but words fail me when i read this........you're just as bad as they are.

[Deckard]

I really didn't want to make this a thread about Israel, but I have to pick up on this...

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

Isreal [SIC] should be wiped from the map, just as Nazi Germany was

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

Any group that believes their theology affords political gain must be stopped - by any means.

Go on, keep going...

Given the extreme unlikelihood of a voluntary diaspora, what's the furthest you're willing to go to stop the regime/movement? Carpet bombing populated towns and cities? A ground offensive? Nuking the place?

Or was "by any means" just a bit of keyboard warrior rhetoric?

I'm assuming you have no relatives living over there?

Since you accept that Zionism ≠ Judaism, do you also accept that Israeli ≠ Zionist? And if so, how does that sit with your "by any means"?

[bas_I_am]

Originally Posted by Rog

I am no lover of Israel but words fail me when i read this........you're just as bad as they are.

Read the entire sentence. . . and quit drinking the Zionist kool-aid!

The zionists want people to believe when people say "Wipe Israel from the map" it is a call for a holocaust.

"Wipe Israel from the map" . . . REMOVE THE POLITICAL ENTITY THAT IS ISRAEL
"Just as Nazi Germany was" . . . NOWHERE WAS THERE WHOLESALE GENOCIDE OF THE GERMAN PEOPLE!

A map is nothing more than political borders that contain named regions. To "wipe Israel from the map" means, remove the political claim the zionists have made on palestine.

In other words. . .

Destroy the political entity that is Israel just as we destroyed the political entity that was Nazi Germany.

Learn to read.
Learn to think.
Learn to learn.

[Rog]

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

obliterate the zionists!!!

this doesn't sound like destroying the political entity..........
and what's all this nazi comparisons bollocks?

Your emotive language does not convey politics - more like violence

I can read
I can think
I can learn.....but perhaps not from you

[Deckard]

Bas compares Zionist-led Israel to the Nazis. Meanwhile prominent Israelis play the same game as him, likening both Hezbollah and Hamas to the Nazis. Several right-leaning US commentators make similar claims about Islamism representing the new Nazism. Palestinians compare the threat of Zionist Israel to the Nazis. And Ahmedinajad notes the irony of Israel's behaviour to the previous suffering of Jews. So that's helpful. We have everyone likening everyone else to the Nazis. In reality, neither Israel nor their current enemies are particularly comparable to the Nazis. You don't have to be a brainwashed apologist for Zionism to reach that conclusion. A bit of history will do.

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

"Any means" means "Any Means"
google Dresden

We're a bit further along than Dresden, so let's not pretend we're just talking about some jolly old aerial battle. "Any [military] means" nowadays includes rather more. If (hypothetically) a nuke is ultimately the only way to remove 'the Zionist problem' then would you support using it? Yes or no?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Of course they aren't entitled to nuclear weapons. No one is entitled to nuclear weapons and it makes me uncertain about the wisdom of our species to hear people make playground fairness arguments about something so threatening to our survival.

Bad phrasing on my part. Equality was the issue I was pursuing. "As entitled as any other nation is (or is not) entitled" is what I meant. (In which case of course your answer may still be no, for other legitimate reasons)

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Would you be willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran?
As much as I'm willing to live in a world with Sean Hannity and Sara Palin.

Is "as much" a rhetorical device or do you really feel no more threat from a nuclear-armed Iran than from the existence of Hannity and Palin? (And can I be the first to suggest sanctions in a bid to eradicate the latter two?)

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Diplomacy and sanctions *will* fail, and it always amazes me how much we still fawn over sanctions. I'm hard pressed to think of one example where economic sanctions achieved a single stated objective, let alone didn't further embolden and unite the target country against us, handing more power to their despotic regime.

However, there simply is no military solution. Its best for government analysts to start redrawing the risk board where in 30 years even countries like Somalia may be buying their uranium enrichment do it yourself kit. What is that world like? How does a free, democratic country defend itself?
Would there be such a thing as a free, democratic country in such an environment? That's what scares the shit out of me.

I think you've summed up the dilemma well, and it's scary as hell.

[bas_I_am]

Originally Posted by Rog

and what's all this nazi comparisons bollocks?

They are cut from the same cloth.

They are both nationalist terrorists.
They both use religion as their justification.
Look at Zionist history.

One of my first memories of becoming aware of world events was hearing Menachem Begin and Moysha Dayan expressing disgust with terrorism and vowing to defeat it.

It then occurred to me, "Wait as second. . . these guys were of European descent. . . were born of families that came to palestine based on some religious claim. . . displacing (through violence) thousands of people who had been living there for countless generations. . . given right to the land by a bunch of rich white guys (the league of nations) because their skin color was close to their own, and the people living there were dark skinned. . . and the way they gained their power was through, of all things - terrorism: bombing hotel's, raiding settlements, land seizure, mass murder etc. . ."

The Zionists set the example for successful terrorism.

See "Stern Gang"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Deckard

So Iran has "defied the West" and apparently started the process of enriching uranium to 20%. Technically this is still low-enriched, but it could take as little as six months to convert it to weapons grade.

Israel's PM has just said Iran should now face 'crippling sanctions'.

1) Do you believe Iran's claim that it is only pursuing nuclear energy?
2) In your view, are Iran entitled to develop a nuclear weapons program?
3) Would you be willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran? (Hans Blix says he would)

If diplomacy and sanctions fail, what - if anything - should the rest of the world do about it?

No, I don't believe they're only pursuing it for energy. Of course that's not based on any kind of decisive fact, but as far as I can tell, most of the signs are pointing that way.

Are they "entitled" to developing them? I guess technically, I'd have to agree with bas_I_am on this, although I personally think it would be best if the entire planet simply eradicated all nuclear weapons.

And I would be extremely uncomfortable with a nuclear armed Iran. Any country that has expressed a desire to wipe another off the face of the planet is obviously serious cause for concern.

And what should the world do about it? I just don't freakin' know.

[//\/\/]

what happens to non-zionist israelis?

[Rog]

maybe they'll get wiped from the map too..............