Another one o' them smoking ban threads....

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

I'm not going to address specifics if you all can't demonstrate that you are capable of understanding the basics of my arguments.

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that this comes down to our inability to comprehend your arguments.

What it does come down to is that you've delivered us a laundry list of glaring contradictions, cold rationalizations with apparently little thought put towards their realistic consequences, misrepresentations of the responses that have been directed at you, and an appaerent unwillingness to clarify your core position and how any of it makes sense on any realistic or constructive level.

Maybe it would be a good idea, since you keep referring to how your core beliefs exempt you from having to address more detail oriented flaws, if you would go ahead and outline those core beliefs in a clear, concise way.

[IsiliRunite]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Again, a glaring self contradiction. You can't call it humane to enforce a criteria for discrimination based on your own personal definition of what is acting in one's self-interest and inhumane if a government program did the same thing.

A government programme cannot judge people on intangibles [nobody can decide what "good health" is] or certain aspects of their being they cannot control [genetics or race], legally, especially when it comes down to life or death. As people, we do it all the time... you all go to parties and choose not to have sex with the fat chicks!

That is not a contradiction, that is a dichotomy.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

you all go to parties and choose not to have sex with the fat chicks!

oh, all the time.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

A government programme cannot judge people on intangibles [nobody can decide what "good health" is] or certain aspects of their being they cannot control [genetics or race], legally, especially when it comes down to life or death. As people, we do it all the time... you all go to parties and choose not to have sex with the fat chicks!

That is not a contradiction, that is a dichotomy.

you got to be fucking kidding me. Incidentally, fat bottomed girls are what makes this crazy world go round, mate.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

As people, we do it all the time... you all go to parties and choose not to have sex with the fat chicks!

You are absolutely right. Although I make a different kind of choice. As a fat chick, I go to parties and choose not to have sex with the moronic bigots. Which would probably explain why you have never had sex with a fat chick.

[IsiliRunite]

You are a beautiful human being.

There are plenty of fat chicks I would have sex with in the world...its just that Star Jones-esque big women aren't my type, and that is the type of big women I see frequently in Detroit. Let me admit a mistake and say, "unattractive chicks", because we all can agree ugly chicks are ugly!

I am so serious, Strangelet, and so sincere...

[BeautifulBurnout]

Hehehe. Nice save.

From my point of view, the older you get, the less you are worried about the exterior packaging and the more you are concerned with what goes on inside a person - intelligence, sense of humour, shared values all add up to so much more than looks, imo. So it is difficult for me to follow your analogy in that respect.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

A... you all go to parties and choose not to have sex with the fat chicks!

That is not a contradiction, that is a dichotomy.

Speak for yourself. I don't go for the model/magazine(plastic) type. I like them a bit chunky.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

I've held the opinion for a while now that some kind of semi-compulsory social service should be the norm for young adults in this country, for only a couple of years. Of course, this would not be limited to military service, but would extend to the Peace Corps, Habitat for Humanity, the Red Cross; any charitable organization in need of volunteers would do. And with a little re-working, such service could easily mimic military service in terms of pay or time served, and the many benefits that military members earn through their service would be offered as well. I just see a real problem with the way young people are developing with no sense of civic responsibility or pride. Very few people have the kind of experience in a culture where you're not only responsible for yourself, but for those around you, and for those you serve.

i think you would enjoy reading robert heinlein. starting with "starship troopers." he agreed with your sentiment and built a solid plot around making that argument.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Rog

Twice in your last last post you mention 'punishing people's wallets', money before people?

this is what i keep coming back to. at no point does there seem to be a fundamental philosophy that transcends the concern for personal wealth.

and just to note, IsiliRunite, we could certainly all have a pissing contest about who is more selfless than whom and i'm sure many of us could contribute a laundry list of charitable acts to support our positions. personally i find it a little amusing that you pissed on sarcasmo's service then chose to announce your own low-risk acts of selflessness to illustrate what a good person you are. the bloodmobile shows up at work so you donate a pint? excellent. our soldiers whose service you casually dismissed face mortar fire on a daily basis. you'll always be your own hero, but you'll have to forgive me if i don't regard you as a saint.

you have still not addressed any of the questions addressed to you in this thread, as sean pointed out. it's a question of morality and it is simple. i'm not trying to back you into saying "universal healthcare is awesome!" i even gave you the perfect out in my last post. do you or do you not think a person's chance of survival in this world should depend on his or her ability to pay? do you think health is a fundamental human right? you don't have to say yes. i'd be happy if you said no, because at least you'd be participating in the conversation. it's a simple question, i don't see what's so difficult about answering it.