Riots in Tibet

[BeautifulBurnout]

What pisses me off big time is that, once again, the British Govt. are talking about creating a "ring of steel" round the route of the Olympic Torch when it comes to London to prevent Free Tibet activists from demonstrating. Same as in my first post where they prevented demos against the then Chinese Premier's visit.

WTF?! This is MY country, not some Chinese province, as far as I am aware. The Free Tibet movement is largely made up of Buddhists who are, surprisingly enough, pacifists and non-violent.

Why are the people in government so frightened of a few banners and Tibetan flags and a bunch of loud hailers? Freedom of speech my ass.

Gets right on my wick, I can tell you.

[Sarcasmo]

Yeah, God forbid they profane our precious, scandal-riddled Olympics.

[Deckard]

Oops, that's snuffed it!

[chuck]

There was an article the other day in paper here - sorry, don't have a link, but gist of it was that apart from family and immediate supporters of competitors - there not a lot of punters lining up, or booking tickets or tour packages to the Beijing Olympics.

Apart from the pollution issues, the human rights issues, there's not really that much of a demand to go.

Potentially this could be a complete cock-up for the Chinese authorities. This is after all, meant to be the great, triumphant announcement to the world, about the glory of the 21st century China.

But if no-one turns up to watch - and to date it's been a PR disaster. Having to put out the 'flame of peace - that binds the nations' is a bit of a joke really. It's even more idiotic/ironic than the wall of steel that surrounds GW when he's touring. We're talking about a symbolic icon for gods sake.

Anyway - it's not like NZ is doing much about it - we've just become the first Western nation to sign a free trade agreement with the Chinese - so all 4 million of us are about to shipped to Shanghai in a deal for cheap labour. The sheep do get to stay behind and look after the place.

[m.g.]

The torch thing was quite a bit of a mess here (they actually stopped the ceremony at some point due to demonstrations all along the way & it was not "several hundred" but many thousands... & erm... i was a bit around, just to add my voice...).

I think the IOC is one of the biggest bunch of cynical corrupted people (but everybody knows that...).

There are constant debates on tv & newspapers here & when a Chinese representative dares to speak or express an official position it invariably starts with "well, you don't know anything about Chinese history & you should not forget that Tibet belongs to China since 12th century..."

I think China anyway needs the resources that Tibet owns & the also wants to own the land which is the border with one of their "best" enemy (China). The other thing is that their not really reporting in Chinese medias what's really happening here & there in the world, plus internet is totally under control there (thanks yahoo & others...)

China is NOT a democratic country anyway & the 1st mistake was the IOC giving the Olympic Games to Beijing (with the absolutely fake pretext that it'll be good for democracy & changes there ).

I think boycotting the Games is for nothing (it's too late & it'll only affect the athletes...) but everybody here & there should speak, shout, demonstrate, resist, wear a badge or a t-shirt, carry a Tibet flag, do whatever possible & something will always remain if there are millions of people expressing their disgust of that situation...

VoilÃ*. Nothing is never for nothing.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by m.g.

I think boycotting the Games is for nothing (it's too late & it'll only affect the athletes...)

see, i disagree with this view. there seem to be two arguments with regards to the validity of the games this time around:

1) china's human rights violations make it an ill-suited venue and the games should be boycotted in order to send a message.

2) the games are about athletes who train hard and deserve to compete, so leave politics out of it.

my big problem with #2 is that it implies that athletes are somehow a special reserved class of people who should be coddled and cushioned and kept from disappointment because they "work hard." well you know who else works hard? the people who fight to have their voices heard in a country that squashes the freedom of its citizens. i don't understand how the idea of someone skiing down a slope or flipping around a pommel horse outweighs the importance of basic human rights.

the games should be boycotted. period. i'm willing to let a small minority of competitive jocks be disappointed, if it sends a greater message about the lives and welfare of innocent people.

and let's just set aside this whole "good will" crap. the olympics are not about good will. they're about advertising dollars and ridiculous jingoistic shows of competitiveness.

[Rog]

maybe its time they were scrapped completely?

[cacophony]

wouldn't make a difference to me. i have no taste for sports.

[m.g.]

Originally Posted by cacophony

see, i disagree with this view. there seem to be two arguments with regards to the validity of the games this time around:

1) china's human rights violations make it an ill-suited venue and the games should be boycotted in order to send a message.

2) the games are about athletes who train hard and deserve to compete, so leave politics out of it.

my big problem with #2 is that it implies that athletes are somehow a special reserved class of people who should be coddled and cushioned and kept from disappointment because they "work hard." well you know who else works hard? the people who fight to have their voices heard in a country that squashes the freedom of its citizens. i don't understand how the idea of someone skiing down a slope or flipping around a pommel horse outweighs the importance of basic human rights.

the games should be boycotted. period. i'm willing to let a small minority of competitive jocks be disappointed, if it sends a greater message about the lives and welfare of innocent people.

and let's just set aside this whole "good will" crap. the olympics are not about good will. they're about advertising dollars and ridiculous jingoistic shows of competitiveness.

I don't think that "athletes are somehow a special reserved class of people" but I don't think that athletes should be taken as a pretext or as "hostages", precisely for something as important for them as Olympics Games & specially to balance the failures of politics regarding human rights and/or companies making business with China (& closing their eyes/hears about what happens there...).

Athletes can also, while in the Games, speak or show messages or wear a badge (as they do in France now) or boycotting the opening ceremony, etc...

I think that what happens now should be in the hands of politics but apparently they're not doing/saying anything significant against the situation in Tibet (& in China). They should have started in the 50's when China invaded Tibet, companies should have started by imposing conditions (re: minimum human rights levels, freedom of press, death penalty, etc...) before going there. And nobody did.

I'll finally add that if everybody was boycotting everything which wasn't clean regarding human rights, there will be a lot of things in a lot of countries which should be boycotted... & no need for that to go as far as China... (randomly & totally non exhaustively : Burma, Afghanistan, Russia, Irak, pharmaceutical laboratories, death penalty, torture, Guantanamo, Irak, Monsanto, freedom of press, etc...).

I think people should shout, people should demonstrate & resist, people should talk to people & most of all people should vote & elect the correct people at the correct places. Always. Period.

[chuck]

Sports and politics are a horrible mix - and I say that as an ardent sports fan/atic (depending on the sport) - but they are definitely linked. They can be used by both sides, with varying degrees of success.

The boycott of the apartheid-era South Africa - particularly in relation to rugby - struck to the core of what it was to be white south african male. The boycotts of the Moscow and then LA Olympics were last rattles of the Cold War to some extent.

A large number of African nations boycotted the 1976 games in protest at NZ still playing rugby with SA at the time. The closest we had to anarchy on the streets (and there was blood) was when the Springboks toured here in 1981 - that really split the country. And still does.

Have they had an impact? Debatable.

We should keep making the point, - and I'm firmly in the camp that says that China should be held accountable. But it's debatable how much of an impact a specific boycott by athletes would have at this point.

Most nations are bending over backwards to either get into the Chinese market, and we're all sucking up their goods like there's no tomorrow.

I just appreciate that most people I know - are seeing the current Olympic setup for what it is - big money, big money, big money. I'm all for supporting the athletes in their individual endeavors and the patriotic part of me will cheer on the NZ ones.

But doing that - to me at least - does not condone what China is all about in regards to human rights abuses, pollution issues, trade practices. Nor does it prevent me from having some concerns about NZ's FT deal with them.

Right - I'm off to heat up some humble pie and eat it over in the thread about arsenal being pwned!