Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith...

[King of Snake]

Originally Posted by big screen satellite

unfortunatley the problem with the Prequel Trilogy (PT) is it suffered from great expectation and hype and failed to deliver for fans of the Original Trilogy (OT)...

however,

there are kids out there who know and only know the PT, and love episodes I-III - they are aged between 8-15...which is how old most of us who saw the OT were (well us 30 somethings at least)

don't forget that many older people didn't think the OT was that great when it came out...clunky dialogue - stupid plot, poor acting...teh very same accusations laid upon the PT...don't forget several major studios foolishly turned it down...

its all a matter of perspective...we loved the OT because we grew up with it...GL went back and made the PT...almost because the fans (now aged) demanded it (but mainly because he could with the technoilogy he now has)

its a kids movie...made for kids...how many 7 year olds thingk Jar Jar is dumb, or that Anakin & Obi Wan's dialogue is clunky...none, because they just love the battles, they don't care if there's too much CGI, or not enough explanation...they wanna see explosions, the odd funny bit, and enjoy a space movie...

its a simple logic that GL has applied and regargless of the fans backlash at TPM...he's carried on...think back to when you were 7 - would you have enjoyed ROTS more...probably...

some people take movies way too seriously above and beyond what they are meant for....entertainment

ok - i agree with most of you on all the claims laid at GL's door about not being able to direct people or write dialogue or whatever...but so what - the movie was fun and completed the series of one of the best Saga's in movie history...

now on to the Star Wars TV series...

i disagree for the most part. I hear this argument a lot of times "we like the original trilogy because we grew up with it but in the end they are all the same and they're all kids movies etc etc" and then the ultimate obviousness of "some people take movies way too seriously above and beyond what they are meant for....entertainment".
The fact that i deeply dislike a lot of aspects from the new movies has nothing to do with taking it too seriously. I don't take Star Wars seriously at all, but I can still demand quality from my entertainment. I take quality movie-making seriously, and a movie can be aimed at 7 year old kids and still have that quality. Explosions, bad jokes and expensive CG does not make for quality entertainment (how many more hollywood blockbusters does it take to prove that point?) There are just obvious faults with this movies that can't be ignored. Will 7 year old kids care about it? Probably not. But will they think back of these films fondly in 20 years and will new generation of kids pick them up like they did the original films. I think not. They will never be seen as classics like the old ones.

[patrick]

ya, i think KoS's point is good. However i believe that is more of the prilogy as a whole. i think this movie was 10 times better than the first.... with the exception to all the SHITTY SHITTY SHITTY tie ins, like the wookies and the "qui-qon taught me to talk to the past etc etc etc" all BS..
and the worst of themmm: "Luke.... Leia..." Like that was important... it made me burst out laughing and then i hit my friend.

[big screen satellite]

the thing is that i think people are expecting to much from these movies - did GL set the bar too high in 1977?

...generally the PT movies are NOT bad at all...and there are elements in them that are astounding and will be remembered for many years...(the Jedi's sabre fight with Darth Maul for one)

i don't think that you can just pass over the PT just because of Jar Jar pisses you off or that there's too much CGI (there's too much CGI in Spiderman IMO) or the acting is crap...all of these things were burdended upon the original movie...a 7ft man in a bear suit, muppet aliens in the cantina & Jabba's palace, clunky dialogue ("its a good job you had these compartments"), and people are even forgetting the ewok sequences in ROTJ....these were 'roundly' hated by critics and fans...

i'm not saying that any of the PT are gonna win oscars (well they haven't) but in terms of CG they have already been groundbreaking, and GL is breaking barriers every movie he makes...GL cannot write dialogue or direct actors, but he sure can direct a good action shot, and create a unique universe, in which to get immersed - the Star Wars Saga is all about escaping...

Star Wars is a kids movie, there is no denying that, and in his mind, GL has to tell you everything, rather than let you figure it out for yourself, after all not everybody is a 30 something fanboy who knows the backstory, or the key plot points...

by no means am i saying that the PT movies are the best in the world - they are obviously not, but i wish people would stop bashing them because they have some deep-rooted love of the past, Star Wars wasn't a great movie all over, it was a great event and groundbreaking, and thats what people remember...

enough people went to see TPM, more than once, its not the 5th most successful movie in BO take of all time for nothing...and i've been conversing with a lot of fans of the Star Wars movies born since the OT, and most of them prefer the new trilogy...all they know is CGI and Blockbuster explosions...70's hairstyles and 'muppet' like puppets don't impress kids these days...

[King of Snake]

Originally Posted by big screen satellite

GL cannot write dialogue or direct actors, but he sure can direct a good action shot, and create a unique universe, in which to get immersed - the Star Wars Saga is all about escaping...

That's just the thing, I can get immersed in the universe of the old movies (well maybe until the Ewoks show up ), but I just have such a hard time getting immersed in the new ones because even the people who made it didn't take it seriously and are constantly winking at me from behind the screen with their goofy little droids saying "uh-oh" and aliens stepping in poo.
That's what's so good about Empire Strikes Back, because there you had a director who actually took the universe of the movie seriously. He says in one of the interviews on the dvd edition something like "I felt it (the movie) needed humour, but yet I couldn't have gags, I felt like it needed romance, but it couldn't have a lot of kissing etc". George Lucas applies the opposite logic, diluting what is supposed to be an epic story of war and loss of freedom with stupid gags and smoochie love scenes. I can't even begin to imagine how much this movie would improve if you would just cut all the bad jokes out.

Star Wars is a kids movie, there is no denying that, and in his mind, GL has to tell you everything, rather than let you figure it out for yourself, after all not everybody is a 30 something fanboy who knows the backstory, or the key plot points...

Actually I thought there were way too many things that were just not explained at all and just seemed to happen for no apparent reason.

by no means am i saying that the PT movies are the best in the world - they are obviously not, but i wish people would stop bashing them because they have some deep-rooted love of the past, Star Wars wasn't a great movie all over, it was a great event and groundbreaking, and thats what people remember...

well I don't have a particular love of Return of the Jedi, but the other the films are just much, much better in almost every respect (that matters). I'm sure the original trilogy has it's moments of bad acting but at least I can watch it without cringing, something that's impossible in most scenes in the new films. And it's not because I hate the actors or anything, I'm sure they can all act pretty good (especially Ewan McGregor) but because of the insanely stupid things they keep saying.
You don't have to compare them to the old Star Wars movies to bash them either, you can just compare it with Lord of the Rings for a present day example of big-budget epic fantasy filmmaking done right.

enough people went to see TPM, more than once, its not the 5th most successful movie in BO take of all time for nothing...and i've been conversing with a lot of fans of the Star Wars movies born since the OT, and most of them prefer the new trilogy...all they know is CGI and Blockbuster explosions...70's hairstyles and 'muppet' like puppets don't impress kids these days...

I guess we can conclude that's quite a sad state of affairs then. We all know that big special effects blockbusters can still rake in the millions even with a dumb plot and bad acting. There are more than enough people who will fall for that sort of thing and kid themselves that they just saw a great movie. Hey, I enjoy watching movies like that too from time to time and especially when you're younger you obviously are less critical of things like plot or acting (I know because for a while I thought Independance Day was the best movie evar! ), that doesn't mean it's ok to just forget about that and focus on more CG instead.

[big screen satellite]

^ KOS i agree with you on almost every count...LOTR trilogy is a masterpiece for one..., and I do think that GL did get lazy or reliant upon CGI, but there is no denying that the PT set of movies have been a great success...

even I cringe at the acting, which i think is the worst part of the PT...little Annie, Ewan, Hayden...even Palpatine overacts a bit too much in ROTS...and yes these elements do spoil the movie to a certain degree, but i think i try and let these gloss over...there are a lot more godawful bits in the PT than any of the OT...the hills are alive scene...but hey i accept that GL hasn't learnt from his lack of scriptwriting ability and dialogue skills and accept the movies as they are...i like the PT as its part of the complete Star Wars Saga...even i appreciate teh finer qualities of the OT...but i have to defend the fact that GL went back and made the PT...



and there are plently of shite movies at the top of the BO takings chart..Titanic being the biggest one...and you can blame GL for almost all of these movies too...after all, over 60 of the top 100 grossing movies of all time were made using IML technology (George's CGI dept.) or by WETA (a company set up by Peter Jackson, inspired by ILM - to assist in the LOTR trilogy)...GL and Star Wars have a lot to answer for...

[King of Snake]

They have been succesfull, but I think the success is mostly based on the popularity of the originals and the franchise as a whole, and the special effects. And I guess there are a whole lot of devote Star Wars fans who are willing to accept anythin Lucas does and think it's great just because it's Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars and I did enjoy the prequels to a certain degree because it is Star Wars and they do have their place in the saga. It's just that they could have and should have done a whole lot better and when I'm watching these films there's this voice in my head that keeps telling me "come on, you can try to enjoy it but deep inside you know it's crap!"

and there are plently of shite movies at the top of the BO takings chart..Titanic being the biggest one...and you can blame GL for almost all of these movies too...after all, over 60 of the top 100 grossing movies of all time were made using IML technology (George's CGI dept.) or by WETA (a company set up by Peter Jackson, inspired by ILM - to assist in the LOTR trilogy)...GL and Star Wars have a lot to answer for...

can't argue with this. Of course ILM have done some great things (and some not so great) over the years. As for Weta, I think the Peter Jackson/Weta combination is going to give us some really great movies in the future. (currently enjoying all the online making of-video's of King Kong) From everything I've seen of Weta (and believe me I've watched every second of the LOTR extended dvd's) they are an amazingly talented group of people with an equally amazing spirit and work ethos. Something that I'm not so sure about in regards to ILM these days.

[//\/\/]

goofy little droids saying "uh-oh" and aliens stepping in poo.

that sort of sums things up nicely!


and how come the death star was pretty-well on the way to being built, only to take another 18 years or so? union problems or something?

[Raz]

Originally Posted by big screen satellite

...LOTR trilogy is a masterpiece for one...

It wasn't *THAT* good.

[big screen satellite]

Originally Posted by Raz

It wasn't *THAT* good.

well it wasn't bad for a three movie set filmed back to back...it was pretty epic - and did win 11 oscars...(i count the oscars given to ROTK - for all three movies)...