sherburne on underworld

[BrotherLovesDub]

Karl as spokesperson, check. Karl as positive voice for UW, check. I don't think Karl was trying to paint a turd gold. I think he is truly satisfied with the position and status of UW in 2006. They have more freedom now to do as they please. Mixmag charts and airplay don't mean shit to them now. Something that should be celebrated, in my opinion, not derided. If they had made another club choon, cries of Sell-Out would be bouncing around these hollow forums. They are clearly enjoying what they do and they have at least 6 great tracks in the bag for the next LP. They've released what, 3 hours of experimental ambient music online and done 2 soundtracks. They just played a wonderful EU mini-tour with gorgeous visuals from Tomato and a record breaking Webcast. Karl's positive slant comes from.....POSITIVITY. He's clearly happy with where UW are and i'm also thrilled at the direction they've taken. Dubno is my fav LP of theirs and I wasn't in love with any of the RRP's, but i'm very satisfied that at this stage in their career they're making music to make themselves happy, not worrying about sales or labels and generally making themselves and their fans happy.

Why didn't Sherburne mention the recent remixes? I'd wager a tenner he didn't have the 12" remixes that were put out this year. In fact, i'd be willing to bet he didn't have all the RRP's or the B&E soundtrack. In other words, he's speaking about shit he knows nothing about.

[kid cue]

Originally Posted by BeautifulBurnout

... whereas you just go off at a tangent when someone calls you out, in an attempt to justify why it was you mocked people for not responding in the manner you consider to be a correct treatment of the subject matter (although you knew very well, as you have said yourself, that you would provoke precisely the kind of response you did from a number of the members here by posting the article in the first place).

Backpedal all you like, mate.

who is snug here? i picture you as a marsupial, trying to stuff the entirety of the internets into your front-mounted furry pocket.

i did predict a negative response. negativity is fine! lame, reactionary negativity is not.

what you perceive as 'backpedaling': i actually make an effort to address your apparently unassailable criticisms of my behavior on your own terms. apparently, the more words i write, the more quickly i write myself into the pre-fab template you've created for me.

obviously this is a dead-end cycle, so i'll say "you're lame and boring" and you'll say "i'm smug and mean" and we'll call it a day. god, i've had you on ignore ever since i re-registered, but just had to see your post when i got signed off. how about you do the same for me, and save yourself a lot of time? and you don't have to wish me a happy birthday, either!

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by kid cue

obviously this is a dead-end cycle, so i'll say "you're lame and boring" and you'll say "i'm smug and mean" and we'll call it a day. god, i've had you on ignore ever since i re-registered, but just had to see your post when i got signed off. how about you do the same for me, and save yourself a lot of time? and you don't have to wish me a happy birthday, either!

Funniest. Post. Evah!

[BrotherLovesDub]

Originally Posted by kid cue

i still disagree w/ you about AHDO. what about it makes it quintessential UW? how come Sherburne is suddenly an UW fan who 'gets' UW just because he likes that album?

to me AHDO is much more a case of UW self-consciously consolidating what defines their sound, rather than channeling anything fundamental about them.

his praise of AHDO also seems to be based on how much it resembles the minimal he's into, not how Underworld it is.

ok, i don't think AHDO is "quintessential UW", but i do think it's a great LP. i prefer it to BF as an album, but the big tunes on BF are better. i think AHDO does illustrate the maturity of the group and their willingness to experiment and shed the shackles of their most popular work. it's an album that doesn't jump out and grab you, but rather rewards you with repeat listens. That's why Sherburne relates it to minimal. You don't hear the beauty on the surface, but rather in between notes, in the silence, in the actual sounds chosen and the superficial simpicity in their arrangement. I think Trim and Luetin are some of the best UW songs ever. Twist is gorgeous but really shines live when Karl adds the magical guitar.

You say AHDO is UW "self-consciously consolidating what defines their sound, rather than channeling anything fundamental about them" and I take issue with this point too.

I completely disagree with you on this point. I just don't see R+K sitting down and trying to sound like UW. I don't think anything can come out of Rick Smith that isn't a distillation of what we recognize as the UW sound. Isn't the first 60 seconds of AHDO classic UW? The intro to Mo Move, up to that reverse beat before the kicks hit...that's classic UW, or in your words, "fundamental" UW. I don't want another STITI or Dubno. I already have 3 LPs and countless remixes by UW that I love. I don't need my fav. artists to continue to progress but UW are doing it for themselves now and I repsect that much more than I would a rehash of any of their previous work.

[kid cue]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

Why didn't Sherburne mention the recent remixes? I'd wager a tenner he didn't have the 12" remixes that were put out this year. In fact, i'd be willing to bet he didn't have all the RRP's or the B&E soundtrack. In other words, he's speaking about shit he knows nothing about.

he was just talking about the albums! sure, he (like all music writers) has a tendency to make absolute, all-encompassing arguments, but he's expressing the perspective of a dance music fan who knows UW about as well as the average dance music fan. why is the only valid criticism/interpretation of UW that of someone who has all their !2"s, digital releases, graphic design books, and all their other side projects? it seems like the definition of fanboyism IMO. you don't have to understand the band inside out in order to say something valid.

(not that i'm agreeing with him per se)

[BrotherLovesDub]

One man's fanboy, is another man's fan. I'm not offended by the fanboy label but I do think a mention of the current remixes would have been a worthy inclusion. Afterall, they had some of the best minimal talent remix the last batch of tracks and they're quite good. Why not mention that as a sign post for the future? I think his ability to make a valid argument is significantly harmed by his brief dismissal of an entire album (STITI) and his failure to mention their very good remix series just out. He mentioned Riverrun, but not the remixes. I think it shows he's not current with his UW knowledge. That doesn't mean he can't comment, but it does detract from his conclusion. I think he has more knowledge about UW than the average fan and I think his critique was mostly accurate. He doesn't need a "fanboy" level of knowledge to add validity to his comments, but he should at least be familiar with their most recent work.

Btw, what is your stance here? So far you've refused to take a side.

[stimpee]

duckie/kid cue: thanks for posting the article in the first place. its certainly caused some creative writing here. i dont believe that you were just trolling either. You did say "sure to inspire ire" and also "not that I agree with him either" which means what it says. I do agree that your opinion on the piece might have been useful but thats never stopped people before from just posting links.

and to stick to the topic, i dont agree with this guy's ramblings either. he has clearly got it wrong about STITI. he's off the mark about BF too. But he's close to the mark on his comments about DNBWMHM and AHDO. Does that make him a good journalist? going on this piece i'd say not but i haven't either read anything of his or even heard of this guy before so i don't know. what i dont get is that he's not mentioned anything post-AHDO except for the fact that the B&E album has been released. the article looks like it could have been written in 2002.

Am i fence sitting? probably. But i'm not gonna get into petty fighting

[stimpee]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

I think Trim and Luetin are some of the best UW songs ever.

best songs on the album. i will give you very good time. indeed.

[jose m]

i have followed underworld from the very early days and i find the review very interesting.well posted thank you.

[patrick]

Originally Posted by stimpee

duckie/kid cue: thanks for posting the article in the first place. its certainly caused some creative writing here. i dont believe that you were just trolling either. You did say "sure to inspire ire" and also "not that I agree with him either" which means what it says. I do agree that your opinion on the piece might have been useful but thats never stopped people before from just posting links.

and to stick to the topic, i dont agree with this guy's ramblings either. he has clearly got it wrong about STITI. he's off the mark about BF too. But he's close to the mark on his comments about DNBWMHM and AHDO. Does that make him a good journalist? going on this piece i'd say not but i haven't either read anything of his or even heard of this guy before so i don't know. what i dont get is that he's not mentioned anything post-AHDO except for the fact that the B&E album has been released. the article looks like it could have been written in 2002.

Am i fence sitting? probably. But i'm not gonna get into petty fighting

exactly what i was thinking stimp. If he only wants to include proper albumns, then why the heck is he writing an article now. according to him and his albumn only perpective, they haven't done anything in 4 years... how can he say some of these things without including what they have been doing lately as it is turning a blind eye to some sort of progression (of the band).

Anyhow, I am super glad this discussion came around and it got kid cue posting more again. It's what I miss about the old incarnation of this thing. I never thought you were trolling or doing anything wrong. The people at the start were definatly posting silly trash talking responses, without substance.

Also: it makes sense for him not to introduce his views right away. He for one doens't want to influence other peoples views, and would argue the middle ground either way to promote the discussion rather than it disapearing right away if everyone agreed... He doesn't have to have a view if he can at least SEE where the articles points are coming from...

know?