Live 8

[Forgotten Sanity]

Originally Posted by goldfish

As before, buying 'meh', who cares, but selling....? Jaysus, for once, it'd be nice to think the world wasn't going to hell in a handbasket, but it is. And all the decent people who stand by and do nothing are helping it on its way. It's just not enough to say that you're not a selfish bastard, sometimes walking the walk is the only option.

Simon

And I still don't understand where the corruption is. Ah whatever, the argument's going in circles. Good havin' dialogue with ya, Mr. Fish.

[Ally]

Originally Posted by goldfish

But people are making a conscious decision to exploit the situation. To take advantage of the scarcity of tickets to line their own pockets.

Are you against capitalising itself, or is this an isolated incident for you?

Originally Posted by goldfish

The tickets were offered for a fair price in a fair way. They weren't exclusive, they weren't restrictive, they just relied on you being lucky. Sometimes it just isn't about money, it's about doing what's right.

Rubbish; there's no fair way to do it other than the old fashioned box office sales. The method employed relied on gambling, and I wonder how many idiots are opening up terrifying mobile phone bills this month. There's no argument that the method of obtaining tickets doesn't fit the definition of "gambling", do you condone it? Especially a gambling competition that was unrestricted and open to any child or similarly irresponsible person with access to a mobile phone.

[big screen satellite]

I won my ticket in an 'email' competition - cost to me :£0.00

number of emails sent: 1

i'll let you know if it was worth my while going on Sunday when i get back

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by Ally

Are you against capitalising itself, or is this an isolated incident for you?

I note you haven't grown a brain in the break.

Originally Posted by Ally

Rubbish; there's no fair way to do it other than the old fashioned box office sales. The method employed relied on gambling, and I wonder how many idiots are opening up terrifying mobile phone bills this month. There's no argument that the method of obtaining tickets doesn't fit the definition of "gambling", do you condone it? Especially a gambling competition that was unrestricted and open to any child or similarly irresponsible person with access to a mobile phone.

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

Are they being a bit stupid? Maybe.

Are they being mercenary cunts? No. Obviously.

Any fuckwit can see there's a difference between trying to buy a charity ticket and trying to exploit the sale of a charity ticket for personal gain.

Oh. Hang on. My bad, there's 2 fuckwits who can't see the difference.

Simon

PS Ally, I've got better things to do than argue with you, so don't be insulted if I don't bother getting involved in your childish little games.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Sanity

... But he's making an ass out of himself in the media, and I think that his system in general has some flaws in it that will prevent it from being maximally effective. That's what is heartbreaking.

I have to say I think you're wrong on this.

Sure, he may be making an "ass out of himself" in the media, but he has already achieved a major goal, which is to publicise this event globally. The fact that we are discussing it on here can be taken as a barometer for the level of discussion that is going on certainly throughout the UK. Ever heard of the old advertising saying that the only bad publicity is no publicity?

His goal from day 1 has been to raise public awareness of the appalling way in which Western governments treat Africa (and other less developed countries/continents). How many teenagers had any inkling about the unfair balance of trade prior to this event? Only those who took an interest in international politics and economics. Now we have a swathe of youngster sporting white wrist-bands and texting for tickets. If it only makes a small percentage of them start thinking twice about any of this, then Geldof has succeeded.

Also, I think the reasons that Geldof didn't want to go down the road of making this a put-your-hand-in-your-pocket event are three-fold:

Firstly, certainly in the UK, we have been suffering from compassion fatigue - people just aren't so fired up to giving money to charity as they were back in the Live Aid days. I don't know whether this is a generational thing, in that younger people seem to be far more materialisitic than I ever was, or whether it is because there are simply too many ads on cable/satellite TV for charities of all shapes and sizes now, and people have become tired of them.

Secondly, in my view, collecting money for starving kids misses the point entirely if, on the one hand, we are donating millions while, on the other hand, Western banks are leeching back double the amount that has been raised in debt service charges. I used to have some precise figures on Ethiopian debt servicing at the time the Live Aid project was going on - if I find them I will post them.

Finally, this is also about people-power. Governments won't shift as long as they feel their positions are safe and people will keep voting for them anyway. However, as far as the UK is concerned, Bliar already got a bloody nose over Iraq, and is down to a 71 seat majority in parliament largely because of it. A huge demonstration today will remind him that his hold on power is far more tenuous now than it ever was, and if he putzes around any more with meaningless sound-bites instead of taking real action, his days will be numbered.

And frankly, I would rather be remembered for making an ass of myself in the media to bring about real economic change in some of the poorest countries in the world than for being the idiot who took our country into a war we didn't want and ignored the people AGAIN by refusing to take action to relieve Africa of its debt burden.

GO BOB!!!!!!

[votingfloater]

Originally Posted by BeautifulBurnout

I have to say I think you're wrong on this.

...

[Bob's] goal from day 1 has been to raise public awareness of the appalling way in which Western governments treat Africa (and other less developed countries/continents). How many teenagers had any inkling about the unfair balance of trade prior to this event? Only those who took an interest in international politics and economics. Now we have a swathe of youngster sporting white wrist-bands and texting for tickets. If it only makes a small percentage of them start thinking twice about any of this, then Geldof has succeeded.

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, it has generated a lot of publicity, and we have had op. eds. about unfair trade restrictions and protectionism, debt relief, and arguably justified vitriol about the EU and g8 being "protections rackets and old boy networks". But in terms of column inches we've had a lot more discussion of the line-up, whether 15 minutes per set is enough, how Dido will be doing a Phil Collins by flying between venues and even a rag-led campaign to get Status Quo on stage. Most folk I've spoken to aren't all that more informed than they were before. At least someone's giving it a bash, though.

Those wristbands that teenagers are wearing... you can buy blank ones all over the place, can you believe that? They're a fashion item, like "Scoubie Dous". And people have been caught selling the pink breast cancer ones at 150% profit.

I wonder if the argument regarding secondary trade in these charity items isn't a sort of a meta-argument about exploitation and profit.

[Ally]

Originally Posted by goldfish

I note you haven't grown a brain in the break.

Yeah and opening your address with name-calling is the higher form of intelligence.. I asked a question.

Originally Posted by goldfish

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

Are they being a bit stupid? Maybe.

Are they being mercenary cunts? No. Obviously.

Any fuckwit can see there's a difference between trying to buy a charity ticket and trying to exploit the sale of a charity ticket for personal gain.

Oh. Hang on. My bad, there's 2 fuckwits who can't see the difference.

Simon

PS Ally, I've got better things to do than argue with you, so don't be insulted if I don't bother getting involved in your childish little games.

It's not irrelevant because it's what we're debating. I disagree that the system is ideal, so I'm a fuckwit? The system isn't fair because it capitalised on a well documented and long studied weakness in people. In turn I suggested that the old fashioned way of a first-come-first-served sale is the fairest way to have done it... You stop it with the childishness Simon.

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by ally

This message is hidden because Ally is on your ignore list.

Neat feature.

[Forgotten Sanity]

Originally Posted by goldfish

Oh. Hang on. My bad, there's 2 fuckwits who can't see the difference.

Hahaha. You know, I'm a week out from joining (give or take a day or three) and I'm still getting my bearings, but I'm starting to gather that this place runs just like any other forum. That being, there are two types of people - one that argues because they are interested towards the outcome, and one that argues because they have some intrinsic need to establish some sort of dominance for themselves, and inferiority towards their debate partner. And all that calling me a fuckwit does is show me that hey, it doesn't matter if you agree or not. Calling me names isn't going to get you any level of meaningful respect. At least when I retracted from the debate, I was cordial enough to show my appreciation for our dialogue. But hey, that's what happens when you get close to 30. And I bumped your reputation too.

So if I am a fuckwit, will you do me a favor and put me on your ignore list as well? Its probably better for the both of us (and our blood pressure). Thanks for your understanding.

[goldfish]

Keep arguing straw men and you'll get there.

Ally is a troll (cf any thread with 'cock' in the title) and outlived any value many moons ago.

You've got some way to go before you affect my blood pressure, of that I can assure you.

Simon