Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the mongoose]

Given as much public domain "proof" as I can provide.....you will have to do all of the connecting of dots...

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

I TOLD all ya'll that "ignore" function is really cool.

I never thought mongoose was such a bitch. to you too!

[the mongoose]

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

I TOLD all ya'll that "ignore" function is really cool.

I never thought mongoose was such a bitch. to you too!

You're welcome.

Just block it all out man.....

[the mongoose]

source article: click

President Obama said the health care bills weren't designed to cover illegal immigrants, except perhaps for children and in cases of emergency.

OBAMA: We don't want a situation in which some child, even if they're an illegal immigrant, shows up in an emergency room with tuberculosis and nobody is giving them treatment, and then they're going back to the playground and playing next to our kids.

[the mongoose]

Article source: Click
Now, nobody in Congress can claim not to know what is going on with illegal aliens and the proposed federal health plan. Congressman Lamar Smith of Texas has laid out the details in The Hill, a newspaper for the Capitol Hill staffers and Members of Congress.

The Democrats’ bill in the House, H.R. 3200, contains gaping loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer-funded benefits. And these loopholes are no accident.
— Rep. Lamar Smith quoted in the Hill

Rosemary Jenks (NumbersUSA’s Director of Government Relations) and I have been doing non-stop radio shows across the country about this. One thing that occurs to us routinely is that the host reads a quote from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying firmly that the health plan will NOT cover illegal immigrants.
To that, I have to say simply, PELOSI IS LYING. And she knows she is lying.
I don’t talk and write like that often. I tend to give people — even politicians — a lot of benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. But Pelosi and her leadership team have been engaged all year in coming up with deceptive language and amendments to make it look like they are denying illegal aliens benefits, all the while including language that that creates loopholes giant enough to drive 11-19 million illegal aliens through them.
(Read here and here about the vote in House committee last week and then here about the effort to cover up their dirty deed the next day. Also watch my short video from Friday about the subject.)
The costs to the American taxpayer will be incredible, writes Smith, the Ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee.

If Americans aren’t already concerned enough about the astronomical costs of the healthcare proposal, this taxpayer-funded benefit for lawbreakers should sound the alarms.
Take just the uninsured: According to the latest research from the Pew Hispanic Center, 59 percent of all illegal immigrant adults lacked health insurance in 2007. These figures are dramatically higher than the 14 percent uninsured rate for U.S.-born adults. The children of illegal immigrants are also uninsured at extremely high rates — 45 percent of their foreign-born children are uninsured!
Of course, when it comes to illegal immigration, taxpayer-provided health insurance represents just part of the cost. Healthcare for illegal immigrants costs Americans at least $1 billion each year, not including health costs for children and the elderly. In my home state of Texas, just the price tag of educating the children of illegal immigrants adds up to around $4 billion annually!
— Rep. Lamar Smith

Of course, Pres. Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid have a simple solution that would greatly reduce the cost of insuring and providing health care to illegal aliens:
Their solution is to stop calling them illegal aliens and to call them “legal immigrants� and “U.S. citizens.� Of course, the cost to the taxpayer will be the same (or probably quite a bit higher as they fully take advantage of more welfare benefits). But since they are no longer called “illegal aliens,� nobody can say the costs are attributable to paying for illegal aliens.
Don’t you just feel like you have been plunged into a George Orwell novel?
Right now, millions of people around the world are preparing to move to the United States illegally to take U.S. jobs from American citizens because the Congress won’t require businesses to use E-Verify.
If Congress now approves a federal health plan that covers any foreign national who can get into the country, just imagine how many more millions of people will be preparing to move here illegally.

Spending billions of taxpayer dollars to overhaul a healthcare system that provides Americans with the best care in the world makes no sense. And using those taxpayer dollars to provide benefits to illegal immigrants is inexcusable.
The Obama administration and Democrats in Congress should not force American taxpayers to provide healthcare benefits to illegal immigrants.
— Rep. Lamar Smith

I urge all of you to protest at the top of your lungs at all Town Hall meetings of your Members of Congress this month.
If you have Republican Members, protest the fact that the Republican leadership in Congress is taking a pass on this issue. Lamar Smith is high-ranking. But the half-dozen highest ranking Republicans are standing mostly mute. They are not making the inclusion of illegal aliens a big issue. What is wrong with them? Which big-money special interest is keeping them quiet.
If you have Democratic Members, make them understand that YOU hold THEM responsible for the fact that THEIR Party is putting illegal aliens and the corrupt businesses that hire them ahead of the interests of U.S. citizens, taxpayers and workers.
We the People surely can stop an outrage this clear and this gigantic.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by the mongoose

Given as much public domain "proof" as I can provide.....you will have to do all of the connecting of dots...

It seems that we just "connect the dots" quite differently from each other, and based on differing levels of facts versus assumption. Even looking at your latest links, it appears that we reach very different conclusions about the very same texts. The first one about Lamar Smith wraps up with statements like "I urge all of you to protest at the top of your lungs at all Town Hall meetings of your Members of Congress this month", which I've personally found to be a deplorable, counter-productive tactic. This isn't a debate that's best serviced by who can screech out the loudest - it requires rational, informed discussion. And frankly, the things that have been said by the loudest people have tended to be the dumbest, most ignorant stuff I've heard.

Another of his final statements is "If you have Republican Members, protest the fact that the Republican leadership in Congress is taking a pass on this issue. Lamar Smith is high-ranking. But the half-dozen highest ranking Republicans are standing mostly mute. They are not making the inclusion of illegal aliens a big issue. What is wrong with them? Which big-money special interest is keeping them quiet." I've personally found that if this kind of "standing mostly mute" is happening in cases like this, it's usually because the theories in question have no real merit, so they don't justify the time and energy that conspiracy theorists are demanding they get.

And then you cite Obama saying "We don't want a situation in which some child, even if they're an illegal immigrant, shows up in an emergency room with tuberculosis and nobody is giving them treatment, and then they're going back to the playground and playing next to our kids." Can't say I disagree with him. I also can't say that this qualifies as proof of your accusation that Obama is "legally opening up all of our medical resources to what essentially amounts to the entire country of Mexico".

And then of course there's this - "seven falsehoods about healthcare". Check the last point in particular.

I'm sure you see all of this very differently from me though, and that's your prerogative. So I guess just take it all for whatever it's worth to you.

[Sean]

Here's a pertinent article - albeit from the lying bowels of the vile beast Mr. Rogers helped create...

An excerpt:

In Health Care Debate, Fear Trumps Logic
by JULIE ROVNER

...Jonathan Oberlander, a political scientist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, says he's not at all surprised to see recent claims — all thoroughly debunked — that suggest, for example, that bills under consideration would encourage senior citizens to commit suicide when they become ill or infirm.

"It's really a case of deja vu," he says. "You hear in today's debate echoes of the past that extend all the way to the early part of the 20th century. And I think the reason that people use fear again and again is that it's effective. It's worked to stop health reform in the past. And so they're going to try and use it in the present."

History Of Scare Tactics

Oberlander says opponents used scare tactics the very first time the idea of national health insurance was broached — around 1915 — by tying would-be reformers to the nation's then-greatest international threat.

"They said that national health insurance was a plot by the German emperor to take over the United States," he says.

The next effort to remake the health system came during the late 1940s. This time the opposition, led by the American Medical Association, exploited the newest fears. "They said if we adopted national health insurance, the Red army would be marching through the streets of the U.S.; they said this was the first step toward communism," Oberlander says.

By the time the Clinton administration took on the health effort, the power of the American Medical Association was fading. But now a new opponent took its place — the health insurance industry. It ran ads using an ordinary looking couple, named Harry and Louise, to raise doubts among middle-class Americans about how the Clinton plan might hurt rather than help them.

Says Oberlander, "The opponents have changed over time; the tactic of relying on fear and scaring Americans has not."

And now, we have a black, Socialist President with the middle name "Hussein" and who's not even a U.S. citizen that wants to pull the plug on Granny with his "death panels", insure illegal immigrants, and bankrupt the country, all of which clearly means that he wants to destroy America.


And while we're at it, www.factcheck.org has come out with a new article called "Twenty Six Lies About H.R. 3200". Among them is this:

Claim: Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

False: That’s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs.

[Sarcasmo]

What tickles me immensely about people who talk about "connecting the dots," is just how many of the dots they're connecting don't actually exist.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by the mongoose

Confidentiality

What do you mean by this? You have the smoking gun to prove your points but can't share it thanks to a confidentiality agreement or something? I would think that if your point was valid, you'd be able to find at least some publicly available, reliable information out there to support it.

And holy crap - I just went for the first time to your link that quoted Obama. The portion of his statement that you shared here said:

OBAMA: We don't want a situation in which some child, even if they're an illegal immigrant, shows up in an emergency room with tuberculosis and nobody is giving them treatment, and then they're going back to the playground and playing next to our kids."

You provided this as evidence of the U.S. providing health care to illegal immigrants. What was interesting to me was when I went on to actually read the very next thing Obama says:

"So I think there is a basic standard of decency where if somebody is in a death situation or a severe illness, that we're going to provide them emergency care. But nobody has talked about providing health insurance to illegal immigrants. I want to make that absolutely clear."

And then in the article you linked about KidCare through the phrase "connecting the dots...", I had a hard time knowing which side of the debate you were trying to prove. The article outlines how on both sides of the aisle, the House voted overwhelmingly in favor of covering the children of illegal immigrants, but then there's this comment:

Immigrant advocates were caught off guard by the number of House members who stood up to fight for coverage of children here illegally, but said it likely wouldn't have a practical impact because of the need for documentation.

Rep. Bill Galvano, the sponsor of the bill agreed that there likely wouldn't be many - or maybe any - illegal immigrants who try to get into the program.

So anyway, your point is basically that the definitive information to counter all of this is not publicly available?

[the mongoose]

The fucking liar is called out on national TV!




Oh yeah, and here's more public proof that stuffs already rockin' and rollin':

Washington, DC—The National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States, praises President Barack Obama and Congress for passing the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2009 with measures that strengthen health care for America’s children, including legal immigrant children. By signing this bill today, President Obama ensured health coverage for four million more children in the U.S. and ended a five-year waiting period for health care to which legal immigrant children and pregnant women have been subjected for more than a decade.

“President Obama’s signature on the CHIP reauthorization is a tangible demonstration of the Administration’s commitment to the Latino community,” said Janet MurguÃ*a, NCLR President and CEO. “Our nation’s leaders have made a wise choice to stand up for our communities in the face of unfounded attacks and do what’s right for children by strengthening this important health program. They have sided with what is in the best interest of our nation’s children instead of a divisive anti-immigrant minority that seeks to invoke fear among Americans.”

Americans overwhelmingly favor health coverage access for legal immigrant children; polling has shown that 79% of voters supported the elimination of the five-year waiting period. NCLR thanks the Administration and Congress and looks forward to continued collaboration to improve opportunities for all Americans.


I'm sure you guys will try to point out that it uses the term "legal" but also note the fact that it says that they would normally be waiting 5 years under the old rules before the bill was signed.....