election in iran

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

I'd make a joke here, as I do to keep discussions from raging into something they're not, but I'll maintain.

I still stand by all I've said.

Yeah....I remember when stuff like this CNN video was happening in the US in 2004. Oh wait, no I don't.

But this sounds like a description of the US in 2004...

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Security forces wielding clubs and firing weapons beat back demonstrators who flocked to a Tehran square Wednesday to continue protests, with one witness saying security forces beat people like "animals."

At least two sources described wild and violent conditions at a part of Tehran where protesters had planned to demonstrate.

"They were waiting for us," the source said. "They all have guns and riot uniforms. It was like a mouse trap."

"I see many people with broken arms, legs, heads -- blood everywhere -- pepper gas like war," the source said.

About "500 thugs" with clubs came out of a mosque and attacked people in the square, another source said.

The security forces were "beating women madly" and "killing people like hell," the source said.

"They beat up a woman so bad, she was all bloody," the source said in a description that underscores the growing and central role of women in the uprising.

Oh wait, no it doesn't.

What's going on in Iran, to me, looks to be headed towards flat-out revolution. The horrifically violent crackdowns don't seem to be doing anything to stop protests, only solidifying opposition. I'd be posting more in this thread, but all I can seem to do is just sit and try to soak in everything that's happening there. It's absolute craziness. As I mentioned before, I just wonder how much of this police state behavior would have been hidden to the world had it happened just a few years ago, before it was so easy for individuals to spread videos, photos and messages around the planet.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Do you remember a boy getting his head taken off with a machette whilste(oooops, spelt that wrong) on bus ride to Canada?

No, you voted Republican and it keeps coming back to everyone that many who did vote that route, do not remember (or recall) much.

Lots more reminders, when needed.

[myrrh]

It certainly is interesting what is happening there.

I really have no opinion, other than violence against the protesters is wrong.

I am against protesting, as I view it as really just a lesser form of terrorism. Nor do I think that protesting is a right or anything like that. So with this in mind, the government there can just say that protesting is illegal, since it is their country, and then do whatever they want to end the protesting.

I am not really for the current regime, but even Time said that he most likely won the election, it was just that it would have been close enough to have a run-off, which then his opponents would have teamed up against him, and he may have lost.

[dubman]

"and heeere come the pretzels..."

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

(enters FodderFiddler)


"Always the poet, you are."


That "i" word again: http://www.usingenglish.com/referenc...+elephant.html

[Sean]

Originally Posted by myrrh

I am against protesting, as I view it as really just a lesser form of terrorism. Nor do I think that protesting is a right or anything like that. So with this in mind, the government there can just say that protesting is illegal, since it is their country, and then do whatever they want to end the protesting.

How is protesting a lesser form of terrorism? And isn't Iran already doing "whatever they want" to end the protesting - essentially through straight up terrorism against their own citizens? And isn't that exactly why the protesters are continuing to protest?

Originally Posted by myrrh

I am not really for the current regime, but even Time said that he most likely won the election, it was just that it would have been close enough to have a run-off, which then his opponents would have teamed up against him, and he may have lost.

This may be, but it doesn't justify the likely vote tampering that took place. The protesters have undeniable justification in speaking out against what's happened and what is happening now.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

OOOOh, the random word. Keep trying.

[myrrh]

Originally Posted by Sean

How is protesting a lesser form of terrorism? And isn't Iran already doing "whatever they want" to end the protesting - essentially through straight up terrorism against their own citizens? And isn't that exactly why the protesters are continuing to protest?

This may be, but it doesn't justify the likely vote tampering that took place. The protesters have undeniable justification in speaking out against what's happened and what is happening now.

Protesting is a lesser form of terrorism in the fact that the purpose of terrorism is to displace the everyday life of normal civilians. So when things have to shut down due to a protest taking place, it is a lesser form of terrorism. For example, if a man has a deli on a street where there just happens to be a protest on today, and no one can come to his deli, and he loses all his business that day, then in effect those protesters were disrupting the normal flow of daily society, and this, to me, is a lesser form of terrorism.

And the protesters may have justification in speaking out against what is happening, but the reality is it wouldn't be happening, if they weren't protesting.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by myrrh

Protesting is a lesser form of terrorism in the fact that the purpose of terrorism is to displace the everyday life of normal civilians. So when things have to shut down due to a protest taking place, it is a lesser form of terrorism. For example, if a man has a deli on a street where there just happens to be a protest on today, and no one can come to his deli, and he loses all his business that day, then in effect those protesters were disrupting the normal flow of daily society, and this, to me, is a lesser form of terrorism.

I've gotta say, I'm with Ian and Deckard on this. By your reasoning, the farmer's market that happens every Tuesday evening by my work that cuts off easy access to a few local restaurants would also qualify as a "lesser form of terrorism".

Originally Posted by myrrh

And the protesters may have justification in speaking out against what is happening, but the reality is it wouldn't be happening, if they weren't protesting.

This, I simply disagree with. Number one, none of this would be happening if the elections had been held in a way that didn't suggest such strong implications of vote tampering. That - not the protests - is what's at the root of the whole issue.

Number two, this wouldn't have become such an international point of contention if the Iranian government hadn't responded to the protests with such outrageous violence.

And third, I agree that the protesters are justified in speaking out, so in my opinion, they should have a forum available to them to voice their concerns. That forum has traditionally been through peaceful protests. Would you have people with justified issues be silenced and forced to just accept the situation as it is, with no avenue for attempting to affect change available to them?

[Sean]

Lots of updates in this article. Some excerpts:

Iranian authorities have barred journalists for international news organizations from reporting on the streets and ordered them to stay in their offices. This report is based on the accounts of witnesses reached in Iran and official statements carried on Iranian media.

A leading cleric demanded in a nationally broadcast sermon Friday that leaders of the unrest be punished harshly and said some are "worthy of execution."

The official Web site of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, his main tool of communicating with his supporters, was hacked Friday, leaving it blank

In Friday's central Muslim sermon at Tehran University, a senior cleric, Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami, called for harsh retribution for dissent. "Anybody who fights against the Islamic system or the leader of Islamic society, fight him until complete destruction,"

Khatami said those who disturbed the peace and destroyed public property were "at war with God," and said they should be "dealt with without mercy."

"In this unrest, Britons have behaved very mischievously and it is fair to add the slogan of down with England to slogan of down with USA," he said, as his remarks were interrupted by worshippers' chants of "Death to Israel."

In London, Dr. Arash Hejazi, who said he tried to save Soltan as the young woman bled to death, told the BBC she apparently was shot by a member of the Basij militia. Protesters spotted an armed member of the Basij militia on a motorcycle, and stopped and disarmed him, the doctor said. The man appeared to admit shooting Soltan, shouting "I didn't want to kill her," but the furious protesters confiscated his identity card and took photographs of him before letting him go, Hejazi said.

Khamenei has ordered a large security detail around Mousavi—ostensibly to protect him, but presumably also to restrict his movements. Authorities have also targeted those close to Mousavi.

At least 11 Mousavi campaign workers and 25 staffers on his newspaper have been detained since the election.

On Wednesday, 70 university professors were detained immediately after meeting with the opposition leader. All but four have been released. Those still in custody included Qorban Behzadiannejad, Mousavi's former campaign manager.


And this since we were talking about the review of complaints about the election earlier in this thread:

...authorities have repeatedly dismissed the opposition complaints. In remarks quoted on the official IRNA news agency on Friday, Abbas-Ali Kadkhodaei, a spokesman for the 12-member Guardian Council charged with vetting elections, said the panel had “almost finished reviewing defeated candidates’ election complaints,” which the council said earlier numbered in excess of 600.

“The reviews showed that the election was the healthiest since the revolution,” Mr. Kadkhodaei said. “There were no major violations in the election.”

Well if they say so, then surely it must be true....