election in iran

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Don't see you guys getting banned and shit for throwing off the topic. TFu?

[Deckard]

It's all about balance, jr.

I have a lot of thoughts buzzing around my head about this (Iran) but time constraints mean I really shouldn't get into it too heavily until I get some free time next week.

Suffice to say, while there's obviously a lot more angles to this than the American politics angle, I have to say I think Obama is playing this just right.

A taster of how McCain might have fugged it all up...

"[Obama] should speak out that this is a corrupt, fraud, sham of an election," said McCain, Obama's opponent in last year's presidential election. "The Iranian people have been deprived of their rights."

"I think it's possible to engage. But item number one is giving the Iranian people a free and fair election," [McCain] said.

Mmmm, right. "Mousavi and the opposition movement are no more than America's poodles" they'd be shouting.

Nothing galvanizes a country like a common enemy. (It's worth recalling how a wingnut like Ahmadinejad got elected in the first place)

Thank Christ McCain isn't in the White House right now.

EDIT: Ayatollah: 'Iran's Enemies Are Targeting Us'
Ok, perhaps his words would have resonated with a greater majority of the Iranian public had McCain been issuing condemnations. Or perhaps I'm just kidding myself.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by Deckard

Suffice to say, while there's obviously a lot more angles to this than the American politics angle, I have to say I think Obama is playing this just right.

Like the Iranians will just stop what they are doing and exclaim "So remember that western power that gave us the shah out of their own economic self interest and used our freedoms as a pawn in a battle with another eastern power? They have a new conviction about how we should run our country. Hooray for us."

This isn't just another news story. This is man on the moon, berlin wall kind of shit. Here's a country locked in one of the most theocratic strongholds of the world, rising up almost spontaneously and unanimously and everyone thinks this has enough traction to work.

This is why it will work and why the rest of the middle east continues to wallow in the morrass of their own oppresion and corruption. This movement has specific incremental goals. They want more money to trickle down from the oil exports like its done in every other opec country. They want fair elections. Full stop. They are not demanding the overthrow of the government. THey are not justifying murder for some glorious cause. They are not following the dictates of a religious hack, telling them Allah won't give them blessings until they usher in the government of sharia law.

[cured]

Khamenei may have sealed his doom with his speech today. He just gave the bird to the protesters.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by cured

Khamenei may have sealed his doom with his speech today. He just gave the bird to the protesters.

It really struck me as a flagrantly strategic move on his part to try to regain control of the situation regardless of who's right or wrong. I don't believe for a second that Khamenei believes this was a "definitive victory" for Ahmadinejad, otherwise he wouldn't have called for an investigation into the election process a few days ago.

What an incredible process to be witnessing. I really hope it pays off for the Iranian people....

[cured]

C'mon Sean, what do you think of the "investigation"? Here's the problems with that:

1) Ballots were most likely destroyed, if not stored elsewhere
2) Who would conduct the recount, if there is one? Surely the same people who counted them in the first place, right?
3) Who does it serve if the investigation/recount turned up a different winner? There'd be widespread chaos. At worst, Ahmedinejad would lose a chunk of percentage points but remain comfortably over 50%.

I believe Khamenei has really misjudged this situation and is flailing at focusing the blame elsewhere. By directing some of it on the protesters, it only serves to prove, in their minds, that what they're doing is right and they need to push on.

If Khamenei wants to survive this process, he'll have to make a lot of concessions, but at this point I don't think he can do enough to reverse his stature, based on his last 2 speeches.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by cured

C'mon Sean, what do you think of the "investigation"? Here's the problems with that:

1) Ballots were most likely destroyed, if not stored elsewhere
2) Who would conduct the recount, if there is one? Surely the same people who counted them in the first place, right?
3) Who does it serve if the investigation/recount turned up a different winner? There'd be widespread chaos. At worst, Ahmedinejad would lose a chunk of percentage points but remain comfortably over 50%.

I believe Khamenei has really misjudged this situation and is flailing at focusing the blame elsewhere. By directing some of it on the protesters, it only serves to prove, in their minds, that what they're doing is right and they need to push on.

If Khamenei wants to survive this process, he'll have to make a lot of concessions, but at this point I don't think he can do enough to reverse his stature, based on his last 2 speeches.

The round of applause chanting, "Death to America, Death to America" and "Death to Isreal, Death to Isreal" could not help too much either.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

It's like America 2004 in regards to who voted who into office. It's not rocket science, Strangelet.

It's like America 2004, with the economy tanking, but the ultra-conservative side keeps singing, "Here we come to save the day."

I can do some more it you'd like.

Shall we get into the America style of voilence? And I'm not talking about the war in Iraqi.

unlike ahmadinijad, bush was fairly elected in 2004. also unlike the 2004 election, we didn't have a theocratic power falsifying the election results and supressing free speech. btw, the economy was relatively stable in the US in 2004. this is nothing like 2004.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

unlike ahmadinijad, bush was fairly elected in 2004...

After being unfairly elected in 2000, depending on what part of history one chooses to look at.

Originally Posted by bryantm3

also unlike the 2004 election, ... and supressing free speech...

No, just a few years later we got it full throttle in the face and many will still deny that. Depending on what part of history one chooses to look at.


Have you heard the DJ mixes coming out of projektion.com? My god, they are GOOD!

Originally Posted by bryantm3

btw, the economy was relatively stable in the US in 2004. this is nothing like 2004.

No, it wasn't. Is just appeared to be stable and some people(turned out to be quite alot this go round) only believe what they see even if what they see is lies. Depending on what part of history one chooses to look at.

[cacophony]

hey john, i think your sentiments would be more welcome over here:

http://hoekstraisameme.com/

the home of every stupidly hyperbolic "....this is just like iran" statement