No Democracy in China

[Deckard]

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

[cock-a-doodle]

Originally Posted by Deckard

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

Hell, I've been wondering the same thing about Western decmockracy lately.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by myrrh

This idea is based on the claim that every other system is like the pre-civil rights era, which I don't know about Communism, but Sharia Law does not have plain racism and discrimination written into it. In fact, such ideas run completely contrary to Islaam itself, so to say that a system of government that is Islaam calls for would contain ideas that are against Islaam's core teachings is illogical.

whether you believe in sharia law or not, it seems foolish to approve china's decision to supress their people. it's a non-sequitur; it has nothing to do with the chosen and religious imposition of sharia law. rather, it shows your disapproval of the western system of democracy.
what you fail to understand is that different culture groups around the world have different needs and live in different ways. in saudi arabia, many people are happy with the sharia law system; however, in america, we have many different religions and very different traditions in reference to government. to assume that a western country could survive under a sharia law is foolish, first, because the majority of the united states is christian. secondly, because in the united states we believe that people become closer to God by their own personal relationship with God, rather than having religion forced upon them by a central power.
the inverse is also true. the united states has tried to impose democracy on iraq and afghanistan over the past 8 years and has mostly failed. i suppose you see this as an infringement on your traditional system of government, however, in one case, the country was not under sharia law: iraq had a secular government with a dictator in power, and in the other case, the theocratic country directly funded and helped a terrorist group attack our country and kill thousands of people. therefore, we have a right to impose on afghanistan because they attacked us. in the second case, we had no right to invade iraq, but i imagine that some countries that will go unnamed over there were pretty hepped up to do the same to impose their rule on that country.
so, either way, you've got your turban in a wad because we're imposing our law on iraq and getting in your territory. fair; it's your country, it's your right to have whatever form of government you wish to have. but i fail to see the parallels between sharia law, and the secular dictatorship in china that persecutes its people and has historically forbidden established religion, except the old, tired logic that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

[bryantm3]

if that was a bit scathing, i apologise, but the more i hear about the current chinese government, the more i dislike them. they're gradually trying to build up as many allies as possible, even in cambodia, where china funded and gave weapons to the khmer rouge to continue their genocide against the cambodian people. now, china is coming back in and rebuilding their country and trying to act like everything's alright, and it's working. so it's a little upsetting to me to hear both an approval of china and a disapproval of democracy in the same sentence.

[cock-a-doodle]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

because in the united states we believe that people become closer to God by their own personal relationship with God, rather than having religion forced upon them by a central power.

Well, when one considers the bullshit religious views pushed the past 8 years that were really nothing religious other than the "ideal paradise".

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayof...ian/index.html

And here we are.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by Deckard

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

ah but they wouldn't even consider sharia law. They'll vote for a pragmatic secular leader like mossadeq, long before they'll suffer another ayatolah, if they were *really* left alone by the west. myrrh knows it, you and I know it.

[myrrh]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

whether you believe in sharia law or not, it seems foolish to approve china's decision to supress their people. it's a non-sequitur; it has nothing to do with the chosen and religious imposition of sharia law. rather, it shows your disapproval of the western system of democracy.
what you fail to understand is that different culture groups around the world have different needs and live in different ways. in saudi arabia, many people are happy with the sharia law system; however, in america, we have many different religions and very different traditions in reference to government. to assume that a western country could survive under a sharia law is foolish, first, because the majority of the united states is christian. secondly, because in the united states we believe that people become closer to God by their own personal relationship with God, rather than having religion forced upon them by a central power.
the inverse is also true. the united states has tried to impose democracy on iraq and afghanistan over the past 8 years and has mostly failed. i suppose you see this as an infringement on your traditional system of government, however, in one case, the country was not under sharia law: iraq had a secular government with a dictator in power, and in the other case, the theocratic country directly funded and helped a terrorist group attack our country and kill thousands of people. therefore, we have a right to impose on afghanistan because they attacked us. in the second case, we had no right to invade iraq, but i imagine that some countries that will go unnamed over there were pretty hepped up to do the same to impose their rule on that country.
so, either way, you've got your turban in a wad because we're imposing our law on iraq and getting in your territory. fair; it's your country, it's your right to have whatever form of government you wish to have. but i fail to see the parallels between sharia law, and the secular dictatorship in china that persecutes its people and has historically forbidden established religion, except the old, tired logic that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Yeah, after I wrote this thread, I thought about it and seen that what I meant to mean, wasn't conveyed.

The point of this was not to compare governments, because like you said, I don't think that a Sharia based government would work anywhere except in a Muslim country.

However, that being said, no one is trying to force Sharia, or Communism on Western Democratic countries, while the opposite is try with the US and the West. They are forcing their forms of government upon other nations, and this is what I have an issue with.

[myrrh]

Originally Posted by cock-a-doodle

Give me a (this is B.S.mo) break. NO system of government has racism and discrimination written into to them. At least none that anyone pays attention to. It's all just magically gone...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29601858/

And i hate that little opinionated bitch jOHN too.

You can mention Saudi Arabia all you want, but it is not a Sharia based country. It has elements of Sharia, but also has elements in place that are based on their old tribal customs.

There is no Islaamic state on the planet now. There are only countries with Muslim majorities.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by myrrh

There is no Islaamic state on the planet now. There are only countries with Muslim majorities.

Still curious to know how such an ideal Islaamic state is supposed to actually come about. By force? By vote?

(EDIT: ...or by stealing someone else's land and for everyone of similar belief to settle there? *ahem*)

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by myrrh

However, that being said, no one is trying to force Sharia, or Communism on Western Democratic countries, while the opposite is try with the US and the West. They are forcing their forms of government upon other nations, and this is what I have an issue with.

i think where we miscommunicated is our conflicting definitions of "western democracy". My definition is rule by majority choice. which is a "greater than" mathematical concept as universal as the number 4. there's nothing western about it. I think you have it lumped with imperialism which I get, because western governments like to dress imperialism as "democracy".

Which means we aren't arguing at all, because, like I said, I'd be happy to live under sharia law if it was the overwhelming majority and the choice of the people. But I admit this is kind of facetious to say this because I honestly don't think sharia law could ever be brought into being this way. But I could be wrong...