No Democracy in China

Sean · #1 03-09-2009, 11:02 AM

From the article linked in the opening post:

China faces a number of highly sensitive anniversaries this year, including 20 years since the military crushed pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square, and 50 years since an anti-China uprising in Lhasa that sparked the Dalai Lama's flight into exile.

Hardly reason to celebrate their stance.

Any system of government that stifles basic civil liberties is deeply flawed. And I say that fully knowing that there are serious flaws within western-style democracy as well, but hey - western-style democracy allowed us to go from the pre-civil rights era to actually having a black President in just a few short decades. Simply put, that would have been impossible under a rigid system of government like they have in China, or under Sharia law.

myrrh · #2 03-09-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

western-style democracy allowed us to go from the pre-civil rights era to actually having a black President in just a few short decades. Simply put, that would have been impossible under a rigid system of government like they have in China, or under Sharia law.

This idea is based on the claim that every other system is like the pre-civil rights era, which I don't know about Communism, but Sharia Law does not have plain racism and discrimination written into it. In fact, such ideas run completely contrary to Islaam itself, so to say that a system of government that is Islaam calls for would contain ideas that are against Islaam's core teachings is illogical.

Sean · #3 03-09-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrrh

This idea is based on the claim that every other system is like the pre-civil rights era...

Not at all. It just illustrates the way society can and has adapted for the better at an impressive rate under a democratic system. This kind of progress is far more difficult to achieve under rigid, unchallenged rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrrh

...which I don't know about Communism, but Sharia Law does not have plain racism and discrimination written into it. In fact, such ideas run completely contrary to Islaam itself, so to say that a system of government that is Islaam calls for would contain ideas that are against Islaam's core teachings is illogical.

I'm obviously no expert on Sharia law, but it seems that the treatment of women could be viewed as discriminatory. Same with the treatment of people who may suffer from certain illnesses, like alcoholism. Or homosexuals - hard to say that they get a fair, non-discriminatory shake under Sharia law. And it's certainly discriminatory towards anyone who discovers at some point in their life that they want to leave the Islamic faith - although it's of course acceptable for anyone to leave another faith to convert to Islam.

And yes, democracies were generally formed through violence. That seems somewhat unavoidable any time an oppressive, tyrannical leader is threatened with a loss of power. They certainly aren't going to just hand it over. Hell, even Ghandi had a hard time keeping any violence from happening as he led peaceful protests against British rule. But that doesn't invalidate what he was doing in the least. So honestly, I'm not really sure what the point you're making about violence invalidating democracy is supposed to be.

Ultimately, while democracy has it's flaws, it seems to me to be the most effective form of government in that it recognizes basic human nature, individuality, freedom of expression, the undeniable human instinct to explore new ideas, and it provides a means of correcting shortcomings as they become apparent. But let's face it - every system of government is administered by human beings, and human beings are inherently flawed, which means mistakes will always be made, and corruption will always be a concern. No system of government is perfect.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ · #4 03-09-2009, 06:22 PM

Blah, blah, bla-bla, blah, bla blah, blah, bbbb, bblaaah.

Did I say blah?

BeautifulBurnout · #5 03-09-2009, 06:26 PM

Now you're just being a provocative muppet, jOHN.

Time out.

cock-a-doodle · #6 03-09-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrrh

This ..., but Sharia Law does not have plain racism and discrimination written into it. In fact, such ideas run completely contrary to Islaam itself, so to say that a system of government that is Islaam calls for would contain ideas that are against Islaam's core teachings is illogical.

Give me a (this is B.S.mo) break. NO system of government has racism and discrimination written into to them. At least none that anyone pays attention to. It's all just magically gone...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29601858/

And i hate that little opinionated bitch jOHN too.

cock-a-doodle · #7 03-09-2009, 06:44 PM

OMG! I got 'em back!

Deckard · #8 03-09-2009, 07:47 PM

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

cock-a-doodle · #9 03-09-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

Hell, I've been wondering the same thing about Western decmockracy lately.

Strangelet · #10 03-09-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard

I find myself wondering how these Sharia societies are supposed to come about.

Is it forced on the population against their will?
Or do they get to vote on it ... y'know, democractically?

ah but they wouldn't even consider sharia law. They'll vote for a pragmatic secular leader like mossadeq, long before they'll suffer another ayatolah, if they were *really* left alone by the west. myrrh knows it, you and I know it.