Seems kind of slippery-slopey...

[Sean]

Originally Posted by dubman

slippery slope arguments are the easiest thing to construct and assume a linear sequence to the horrible, awful conclusion presented. it can be valid at times, but i just find it so lazy and hard to take seriously.

So then you see no validity to the observation that once a "health"-inspired law is passed, the same people move on to the next item to battle, and then the next? How exactly is making that observation and having a problem with the trend it showcases being "lazy"?

As far as I'm concerned, coercion is simply the wrong way to encourage better eating habits. Education is the way to go if you want lasting change that people won't be bitter and resentful of. Like you mentioned with the "luther burger", I try to eat pretty well, but every now and then I want to go get myself a Tommy Burger, or a Martha Stewart Dog from Pink's (that's right - the Martha Stewart Dog - trust me, it's fantastic and not what you would expect), and I don't want some asshole who decided that no one should ever eat such horribly unhealthy food stripping me of my opportunity to do it. It's not their place to tell me when I can or can't indulge in the occasional unhealthy yet delicious meal.

Where all this will end up is anyone's guess, but there's no denying that there's an active effort being made to legislate what we can and can't eat, and I don't agree with the extent it's going to one bit. It's one thing to have a Food and Drug Administration that can monitor the safe handling and preparation of food, but another entirely to legislate how much salt can be used in a recipe.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Sean

So then you see no validity to the observation that once a "health"-inspired law is passed, the same people move on to the next item to battle, and then the next? How exactly is making that observation and having a problem with the trend it showcases being "lazy"?
.

in a way. the observation seems sound, and it makes sense on the surface but it assumes a linear continuum that "x will lead to y will lead to z" when it's more likely that "x will lead to y will lead to 7, j, and §, making z basically a fever dream"

the thing about clumsy legislation like this is that there's always going to be a lot of people a lot less patient than you and i who will make a lot of noise when people like this (especially people like this) get too brave and push the wrong nerve completely. and things get rescinded, rewritten, reapproached, retried, and eventually some medium is found that's more effective than invisible pamphlets in fast food places, yet not as oppressive as outlawing food.
and so far, on the face of it, harassing restaurants to try a little harder and not shit up our meal simply because they're cheaper isnt something i have a problem with because i dont see that leading to illicit burgers. that's just not realistic.

so, in my mind, when slippery slop (ha, pun) arguments can be used to substantiate and give equal weight to both reasonable conjecture and outright conspiracy, it does turn into an easy device rather than anything i want to seriously think about.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by dubman

so, in my mind, when slippery slop (ha, pun) arguments can be used to substantiate and give equal weight to both reasonable conjecture and outright conspiracy, it does turn into an easy device rather than anything i want to seriously think about.

This is the same city that put the kabosh on trans fats. This is more than an argument it's emperical at this point. So really the burden is on you to argue salt in itself isn't an absurd overreach. I also think it shows a dramatically undeserved trust in government go along with the salt crusade when it's merely a condiment on industrial overly processed poison that all comes from the same warehouse and microwaved to taste

[IsiliRunite]

There were almost no consumer-upside to restaurants using trans fats... almost like a poison. Salt is much, much different...

I think that is when we've jumped off the consumer advocacy shit and onto the oily slope.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

This is the same city that put the kabosh on trans fats. This is more than an argument it's emperical at this point. So really the burden is on you to argue salt in itself isn't an absurd overreach.

i think thats a matter of opinion, no?

i think it skirts the line, certainly, but i dont have a problem. when i feel that they've overstepped i'll say something, but i really, really dont mind this particular campaign.

some people think it oversteps a boundary and have a problem with it. thats fine. i dont care that much, i'm just opining.

so far we're seeing an obvious link from a-to-b, but it's hardly "emprical" that the only direction it's got to go in is 'c.' it certainly could, but it's really not a bridge burned once it's crossed.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by dubman

i think thats a matter of opinion, no?
some people think it oversteps a boundary and have a problem with it. thats fine. i dont care that much, i'm just opining.

sure, I mean really we're just bullshitting. I just happen to disagree with you. For instance I think its quite possible to be scientific about this. Look at all the health problems associated with salt, then look at all the health problems associated with everything else that is going on in food and allocate your resources accordingly. Regardless of slippery slopes or irate libertarians, the salt crusade loses and loses big.

[dubman]

that's cool. i mean if it doesnt work out thats fine, just saying i dont mind that restaurants get in the hot seat to try harder.

i think that salt is the common denominator in restaurant/take out food that's much more saturated than it should be, and its widespread acceptance makes it more of a risk than other additives that may be more chemically harmful, but less omnipresent. sure it serves more as an exacerbator than a cause, but theres not many food items with an overdose of salt that doesnt also abuse caloric content in general. so on top of ingesting foods which might lead to congestive heart failure, salt multiplies that risk along with high blood pressure and stroke.

i'm not coming at this from the perspective of 'people needing to be saved from themselves', i'm coming at with the 'hell yes make restaurants try a little harder to make something that tastes and is a little more decent for you' take

[Sean]

All I know is that from time to time, I want the freedom to go on a self-destructive rampage by eating one of these items. I'm especially drawn to the "The Double Bacon Hamburger Fatty Melt"...