The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

If you ask me the shutting down of OINK was like 100 times more significant than this, and all it did was push filesharing more underground. Perhaps bittorrent will go someday but P2P will not go away without some seriously invasive mesaures.

[dubman]

yay for opening up the market to smaller ISPs that can use this to market themselves...

[BeautifulBurnout]

I know that France have banned certain sites too, although I am not sure which ones. As you say, all this will do is to push it more and more underground, but it won't stop people doing it.

On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me how much of my tax goes to pay the policing of these things uniquely to protect the fiscal interests of big business. What about all the unsolved murders, robberies, burglaries? Oh wait. They only happen to "little" people who don't fund political parties...

[Sean]

I have mixed feelings about this stuff. While being able to easily share files is incredibly convenient and fun when used responsibly, it's also being abused to a level that really hurts some people. The singer who gave me my first opportunity to have a couple remixes released did so through her own start-up label. She's an established vocalist who's been featured on tracks by people like A Guy Called Gerald and Dyad10 along with others, with relative hits like last 2001's "Sugar (Sweet Thing)". But when she released her own album and singles last year, which required personal investment and sacrifice, she made no money at all because the releases were immediately made available for free on P2Ps and torrent sites by some jerk-offs. In fact, she lost money and is now probably shutting down the label as a result. On a personal level, the last time I spoke to her, she sounded pretty crushed about it, and is struggling just to make ends meet.

So it's tempting to think that shutting down these file sharing sites is just because big businesses are protecting their fiscal interests, but it's far harder on the little guy based on what I've seen - thanks to the assholes of the world who don't have the common sense or decency to realize how their illegal actions hurt the lives of others.

[mmm skyscraper]

But without technology, your friend would never be able to record/release music anyway. Public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future or we can go back to the time before recorded music where comissions were the way to make money.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mmm skyscraper

But without technology, your friend would never be able to record/release music anyway. Public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future or we can go back to the time before recorded music where comissions were the way to make money.

I haven't got an issue with technology - I have an issue with selfish and thoughtless behaviour, which is exactly what stealing someone's music and making it available for free is. Not to mention the fact that theft is illegal whether you're stealing physical items from a store, or virtual items from the comfort of your own home.

And I completely disagree with your assertion that "public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future". In fact, it's less that I disagree, and more that I believe it's literally impossible. How can you afford to tour in support of an album you can't afford to make in the first place? And how do you merchandise it if you've actually lost money just trying to get the music out there? No one's going to buy merchandise for a non-existant album. And why bother trying to make music when it's even harder now to make any kind of living at it than it was before thanks to the assholes of the world who feel it's their right to take your work and distribute it for free? As long as this mindset that "art is free, man" persists, art and artists will suffer.

I can only pursue music because I have a day job. Because despite having a few remixes officially released at this point, I haven't made a single penny off of them. Why? On one of them, I had a contract for a flat fee payment, but the label is going under thanks to people stealing the tracks, and has no money to pay as a direct result. On another, because I had a contract for a portion of profits from sales, but clearly sales don't happen when it's being passed around for free. And on the last, we'll see what happens since it's only just about to be released. But I have had to join the local musician's union, which over the past couple years has cost me a few hundred dollars. So basically, ever since I started getting professional work in the music industry, it's actually cost me money.

So how eager do you think I am to continue pursuing a career in music? And how many other amateur musicians do you think have been forced to abandon an attempt at having a career in music thanks to assholes who steal their work? People need to wake the hell up to the consequences of their actions. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this after having seen exactly how file sharing has negatively affected truly talented and inspired artists. It stifles their talent and kills their inspiration. Well done, music fans!

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

And I completely disagree with your assertion that "public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future". In fact, it's less that I disagree, and more that I believe it's literally impossible.

but that's traditionally how most artists have made their money. most record contracts with large labels are structured so that the artists make zilch off of record sales and unless their album goes friggin' platinum they'll never make enough off of simple record sales to recoup the cost of production. on the other hand, touring is where they make bank. performance and merchandise is where artists become financially successful. not record sales.

[King of Snake]

Originally Posted by Sean

I can only pursue music because I have a day job. Because despite having a few remixes officially released at this point, I haven't made a single penny off of them. Why? On one of them, I had a contract for a flat fee payment, but the label is going under thanks to people stealing the tracks, and has no money to pay as a direct result. On another, because I had a contract for a portion of profits from sales, but clearly sales don't happen when it's being passed around for free. And on the last, we'll see what happens since it's only just about to be released.

So how eager do you think I am to continue pursuing a career in music? And how many other amateur musicians do you think have been forced to abandon an attempt at having a career in music thanks to assholes who steal their work? People need to wake the hell up to the consequences of their actions. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this after having seen exactly how file sharing has negatively affected truly talented and inspired artists. It stifles their talent and kills their inspiration. Well done, music fans!

just playing devil's advocate here, but how do you know that filesharing was at the root of all these problems? Surely some records and labels failed just as hard before filesharing even existed. Could be any number of reasons for it.
How do you explain the incredible success of the iTunes store or Beatport? Obviously there are loads of people more than willing to shell out cash for their mp3's, even when the prices aren't exactly all that attractive in all cases compared to physical media.

You have to have a certain degree of luck and be doing just the right thing (or sell your soul and start making Euro Trance) to be able to have a career in music (or any other kind of creative endeavour). It seems to me it's always been like that, filesharing or not.