Iranian uranium

[Strangelet]

I"d like to add that the U.S. bears a lot of the blame (i know, I know, another liberal traitor squawking) for creating an escalation of wmds in the middle east by giving them to Israel. They aren't entitled to them either. And they certainly don't need them. That's fairness.

[Rog]

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

obliterate the zionists!!!

this doesn't sound like destroying the political entity..........
and what's all this nazi comparisons bollocks?

Your emotive language does not convey politics - more like violence

I can read
I can think
I can learn.....but perhaps not from you

[Deckard]

Bas compares Zionist-led Israel to the Nazis. Meanwhile prominent Israelis play the same game as him, likening both Hezbollah and Hamas to the Nazis. Several right-leaning US commentators make similar claims about Islamism representing the new Nazism. Palestinians compare the threat of Zionist Israel to the Nazis. And Ahmedinajad notes the irony of Israel's behaviour to the previous suffering of Jews. So that's helpful. We have everyone likening everyone else to the Nazis. In reality, neither Israel nor their current enemies are particularly comparable to the Nazis. You don't have to be a brainwashed apologist for Zionism to reach that conclusion. A bit of history will do.

Originally Posted by bas_I_am

"Any means" means "Any Means"
google Dresden

We're a bit further along than Dresden, so let's not pretend we're just talking about some jolly old aerial battle. "Any [military] means" nowadays includes rather more. If (hypothetically) a nuke is ultimately the only way to remove 'the Zionist problem' then would you support using it? Yes or no?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Of course they aren't entitled to nuclear weapons. No one is entitled to nuclear weapons and it makes me uncertain about the wisdom of our species to hear people make playground fairness arguments about something so threatening to our survival.

Bad phrasing on my part. Equality was the issue I was pursuing. "As entitled as any other nation is (or is not) entitled" is what I meant. (In which case of course your answer may still be no, for other legitimate reasons)

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Would you be willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran?
As much as I'm willing to live in a world with Sean Hannity and Sara Palin.

Is "as much" a rhetorical device or do you really feel no more threat from a nuclear-armed Iran than from the existence of Hannity and Palin? (And can I be the first to suggest sanctions in a bid to eradicate the latter two?)

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Diplomacy and sanctions *will* fail, and it always amazes me how much we still fawn over sanctions. I'm hard pressed to think of one example where economic sanctions achieved a single stated objective, let alone didn't further embolden and unite the target country against us, handing more power to their despotic regime.

However, there simply is no military solution. Its best for government analysts to start redrawing the risk board where in 30 years even countries like Somalia may be buying their uranium enrichment do it yourself kit. What is that world like? How does a free, democratic country defend itself?
Would there be such a thing as a free, democratic country in such an environment? That's what scares the shit out of me.

I think you've summed up the dilemma well, and it's scary as hell.

[bas_I_am]

Originally Posted by Rog

and what's all this nazi comparisons bollocks?

They are cut from the same cloth.

They are both nationalist terrorists.
They both use religion as their justification.
Look at Zionist history.

One of my first memories of becoming aware of world events was hearing Menachem Begin and Moysha Dayan expressing disgust with terrorism and vowing to defeat it.

It then occurred to me, "Wait as second. . . these guys were of European descent. . . were born of families that came to palestine based on some religious claim. . . displacing (through violence) thousands of people who had been living there for countless generations. . . given right to the land by a bunch of rich white guys (the league of nations) because their skin color was close to their own, and the people living there were dark skinned. . . and the way they gained their power was through, of all things - terrorism: bombing hotel's, raiding settlements, land seizure, mass murder etc. . ."

The Zionists set the example for successful terrorism.

See "Stern Gang"

[//\/\/]

you can't say 'obliterate israel in the same way that dresden was bombed', and then backtrack and say that you only mean to do away with the notion of israel as a country etc.

but you're doubtless going to try.

[bas_I_am]

Originally Posted by //\/\/

you can't say 'obliterate israel in the same way that dresden was bombed'

Don't put words in my mouth

[bas_I_am]

The very notion of an 'Israel' is wrong.

It is the product of Zionism - a european bourne ideology that leverages holocaust guilt in order to subvert and subjugate the land and people of palestine under the guise of legitimacy. Its roots grew from the same racial compost heap that justified Colonialism - a tenet that 'people of color' lack the humanity to control their own destiny. It is as racist as the Ku Klux Klan and as dangerous as the Nazi Party.

Furthermore, it is an insult to the victims of the holocaust as well as the hebrew religion.

Obliterate (remove, erase, excise) the Zionists (and Zionism)! ( that is what I said!!! ) Again, if I said "Remove the Nazi's!!! Erase the KKK!!!" you would be cheering "huzzah!!!"

The political state that is Isreal should,and must, be removed, just as was Nazi Germany. By any means necessary. I used Dresden as a reference because there should be no limit to our resolve to overcome evil.

It has never been in the past.

[Rog]

so bas, being as this was an iran thread rather than an israel thread, what is your considered opinion of the regime in iran and its suppression of the opposition and control of press/tv/etc? we already know about how bad israel can be...............

[bas_I_am]

Originally Posted by Rog

so bas, being as this was an iran thread rather than an israel thread, what is your considered opinion of the regime in iran and its suppression of the opposition and control of press/tv/etc? we already know about how bad israel can be...............

Its wrong. And needs to be obliterated.

It uses Zionism, just as the Zionist's use the holocaust. A means to justify evil.

I contend, Zionism is the greater evil.

I will give you a few minutes to contemplate the last statement.