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Originally Posted by dubman
1. i cant *prove* misogyny because i'm not a woman. all i have is observations and opinions based off of them. if i'm off then okay i'd like for it to make sense otherwise one day, but two dudes arguing about what it is seems a little ludicrous to me. if you want to logically 'prove' institutionalized discrimination then i bet you can find people of all beliefs using different brands of 'logic' to swing their way. or you could just take the hard truth from those who get it in their face all day. and, i guess, be smart enough to distinguish bullshit from whats real and problematic
2. your aim is productivity, and that these people have legitimate, or at least understandable, grounding and should be heard because theyre here whether we like it or not and the sooner we live together the easier this will be. my ground is that theyre fucking retards holding back all things good and decent and should be the last people given clout or compromised with.
3. i dont believe that. i think they might believe superficially that it is, but i'm cynical and really think it stems from a long line of maintaining some form of control. again, opinion. a vehement one, but an opinion nonetheless
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Well at least we're at the core of our differences on it now, which is that I think it's important to fairly recognize the motivations behind what people with differing opinions do and say, and you, by your own admission, prefer to assign your own pre-conceived assumptions to people and reach conclusions about them as a result. To be perfectly honest, I think it's fair to say that this basically nullifies your argument, because you're knowingly ignoring facts in favor of your own personal, subjective conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubman
4. i think this is only an issue if dad doesnt have the resources to care for the kid and she still wants to have it. how this would happen is a little baffling, since no mom who wants a kid bad enough is also going to want to raise them up with nothing to give them, but who knows. but as far as having a say before a woman gets an abortion, i say it's ridiculous. guys planting one seed out of a lifetime supply compared to months of exhaustive care, risk, and obsessive health monitoring aka: doing the whole fucking thing? gtf-outta here, that's borderline facetious. you haven't done shit and dont pretend you have some conceptual say to bridge the dissonance. i dont hate men, because i dont hate myself, but i'll call a spade if it smells like one, and it's a long road to prove otherwise. i hate many MANY aspects of dudely culture and rationalization that dont sit right with me at all and keep me perpetually malcontent. and i think as long as it's that cuture that sitting comfortably meting out media, priveleges, and graciously allowing everyone else to function like they do, there's going to be problems. it's got nothing to do with gender, but what's running the hideous custerfuck currently running.
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But you're no longer following your own logic here. Suddenly, you're relying on relatively reasonable consideration of facts rather than pre-conceived subjective conclusions about people.
And more importantly and relevant to the point, my second analogy that your logic would lead us to the conclusion that you must hate babies still stands completely firm.