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  #21  
Old 06-18-2011, 07:34 AM
Strangelet Strangelet is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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Sounds like Romney's actually the front-runner overall, but this idealogical purity wing of the conservative side of things looks to be changing the whole Republican approach. Particularly during their primaries, we'll probably be seeing who can out-conservative each other on a whole new level, and I'd be willing to bet right now that the result of it will be a Republican nominee that's unelectable in the general election. They'll have painted thmselves into such a far-right corner that they'll be irrelevant to all the moderates who ultimately decide these things.
The thing about the tea party I find the most distressing is its soaking up essential institutions in the political environment. We needed a third party and we needed that party to shore up and voice the frustrations towards the existing two party establishment with all of their hypocrisies.

And for about 15 minutes I had hope that the tea party would be that real grass roots movement to bring legitimacy back to the two party system. Nope. Now they are a liability to democracy because they were easily hijacked by those already in power, like the christian right lobby, and infiltrated by whore politicos like Palin and Glen Beck by parroting their grievances.

Now that the tea party has become the militant wing of the corporate conservative instead of their critic, it leaves the vacuum open to be filled by something else.

And I don't have a lot of hope on this but I do think progressives have abandoned Obama, and enough centrists who are more issue centered have observed that the only difference between the bush years and the obama years is that now its the established democrats that are making excuses for their president instead of the established republicans.. Which means Obama might have a real centrist problem this election, in addition to a rear guard attack from the progressives.

To be quite frank, I would take MoveOn.org a hell of a lot more seriously if they took Obama to task for doing the same things Bush did.

And I'm usually pretty good about listening to Rush and Hannity but lately when they talk about the economy I just can't swallow the injustice of letting these noise boxes squak when they should be held accountable for the part they themselves played.
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  #22  
Old 06-18-2011, 07:57 AM
Strangelet Strangelet is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

i just realized I didn't even get to my point.

So Obama could have a centrist problem.

Since 2008 those in the middle have been flocking to the republican party according to certain polls. That was especially the talk around the mid term elections.

That center may (*MAY*) offset the tea party winds blowing everything off the cliff of stupid so that we may end up having a centrist republican nomination.

To be personal that is my wish because I won't be voting for Obama. Better than Romney is Jon Huntsman Jr. ex governer of Utah, current ambassador to China for Obama. Centrist, supporter of gay marriage, has a brain. But unfortunately for him, he's also mormon and has gone on record saying nice things about his boss.

We'll see....
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2011, 12:17 PM
Deckard Deckard is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

You know, I was originally thinking, whether tea party or centrist, that the Republican nomination would surely end up being one of the following:

1) Macho tough-talking meathead with great hair
2) Ignorant and rather scary dolly-bird with great hair

So it's good to hear about Jon Huntsman who, yes, despite the name, seems like he could be a bit different.

Oh I wish I could say the same about this one who I discovered today...
A former air force pilot, [Rick] Perry has built up a reputation for tough talking and ruggedness. He jogs with a laser-sighted pistol in his belt and shot a coyote during a run last year.
Haha, seriously, where do you manufacture these guys? Do 50% of American voters really need such big strong daddies all the time? (Don't we have websites that satisfy those kindsa needs?)
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2011, 04:34 PM
jOHN rODRIGUEZ jOHN rODRIGUEZ is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

. . . .. ... uumm, what were we talking about again?
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2011, 10:06 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
Oh I wish I could say the same about this one who I discovered today...
A former air force pilot, [Rick] Perry has built up a reputation for tough talking and ruggedness. He jogs with a laser-sighted pistol in his belt and shot a coyote during a run last year.
Haha, seriously, where do you manufacture these guys? Do 50% of American voters really need such big strong daddies all the time? (Don't we have websites that satisfy those kindsa needs?)
Best thing about Perry is when he was threatening to lead Texas in seceding from the U.S. Now there's a good resume point in a Presidential candidate.
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  #26  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:12 AM
Deckard Deckard is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

See that's the thing - candidates are primarily playing to the party activists at the beginning, which involves some sucking up to the most stupid and prejudiced in the party. But you have to go careful not to go too far with that, because it can totally dump on your chances to succeed later on when you're forced to elaborate and justify. It seems to me that many of these wingnuts have gone too far and ruined their chances.
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  #27  
Old 06-20-2011, 09:02 AM
Strangelet Strangelet is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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Haha, seriously, where do you manufacture these guys? Do 50% of American voters really need such big strong daddies all the time? (Don't we have websites that satisfy those kindsa needs?)
Seriously though, being out of my country for a year or so and coming back, two things struck me.

1. The IQ slide. Every time without fail, I leave the states and come back I watch the average IQ slide down significantly. Its pretty alarming and I'm not sure why because americans aren't inherently dumb. Maybe its a combination of 0 curiosity about the world, diet of fast food, and the fact that they just don't read.

2. The men are extremely self aware about their gender. I mean even in Scotland men who play rugby wear skirts and say "wee" and its no issue. But in the states, you have to take the manliness truck and drive out into the wilderness of masculinity before anyone feels comfortable. The way men walk around, what they drive, what they wear, its all a very fastidious effort to not appear gay. And everyone knows that fastidiousness is, you know, kinda gay.
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  #28  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:50 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by Strangelet View Post
And I don't have a lot of hope on this but I do think progressives have abandoned Obama, and enough centrists who are more issue centered have observed that the only difference between the bush years and the obama years is that now its the established democrats that are making excuses for their president instead of the established republicans.. Which means Obama might have a real centrist problem this election, in addition to a rear guard attack from the progressives.

To be quite frank, I would take MoveOn.org a hell of a lot more seriously if they took Obama to task for doing the same things Bush did.
For me, I wonder how much of this sentiment is accurate, and how much is the result of anti-Obama rhetoric. I don't personally buy into the claims of Obama and Bush being the same. Yes, Obama is clearly more of a centerist and pragmatist than leftists and progressives would have liked, but to compare, say, Libya to either Iraq or Afghanistan (and don't get me wrong - I didn't want us to get involved in Libya), or the approaches to taxes, or the whole health care issue, or Don't Ask Don't Tell, etc. reveals pretty significant differences.

I just heard a piece on NPR about gay activists being frustrated that yes, there have been positive developments for them under Obama, but not as much as they want, so they're upset with him. I'm far more sick of people expecting that they should be getting everything they want instead of accepting that this is a nation of vastly differing views and beliefs, and that the compromise this necessitates means progress will always be slow. When one group is getting everything they want, then other groups are invariably getting nothing that they want. That's selfish and untenable to me.
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  #29  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:56 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by Strangelet View Post
Seriously though, being out of my country for a year or so and coming back, two things struck me.

1. The IQ slide. Every time without fail, I leave the states and come back I watch the average IQ slide down significantly. Its pretty alarming and I'm not sure why because americans aren't inherently dumb. Maybe its a combination of 0 curiosity about the world, diet of fast food, and the fact that they just don't read.

2. The men are extremely self aware about their gender. I mean even in Scotland men who play rugby wear skirts and say "wee" and its no issue. But in the states, you have to take the manliness truck and drive out into the wilderness of masculinity before anyone feels comfortable. The way men walk around, what they drive, what they wear, its all a very fastidious effort to not appear gay. And everyone knows that fastidiousness is, you know, kinda gay.
I've been spending a lot of time overseas lately too and in addition to agreeing with you on those two points, the third thing I'm consistantly struck by is American obesity. I always know when I'm getting on my connecting flight that's going to an American city because there are suddenly way more obese people boarding the plane. It's alarming.
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  #30  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:14 PM
bryantm3 bryantm3 is offline
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Default Re: Important Message About Sarah Palin

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For me, I wonder how much of this sentiment is accurate, and how much is the result of anti-Obama rhetoric. I don't personally buy into the claims of Obama and Bush being the same. Yes, Obama is clearly more of a centerist and pragmatist than leftists and progressives would have liked, but to compare, say, Libya to either Iraq or Afghanistan (and don't get me wrong - I didn't want us to get involved in Libya), or the approaches to taxes, or the whole health care issue, or Don't Ask Don't Tell, etc. reveals pretty significant differences.

I just heard a piece on NPR about gay activists being frustrated that yes, there have been positive developments for them under Obama, but not as much as they want, so they're upset with him. I'm far more sick of people expecting that they should be getting everything they want instead of accepting that this is a nation of vastly differing views and beliefs, and that the compromise this necessitates means progress will always be slow. When one group is getting everything they want, then other groups are invariably getting nothing that they want. That's selfish and untenable to me.
yeah, sean, but nobody wants this corporate tied hawkish crap that we've had in every president since at least the first bush. pretty much everyone is tired of goverment getting involved in business (not regulation, bailouts), everyone is tired of invading other countries for no particular reason (oil), everybody is tired of corporate interests in washington, and finally everyone is tired of people claiming they have nothing to do with any of those things and getting tied up in it.

those things i listed above are common in both the campaign rhetoric of the democrats and the republicans, because that's how people feel. they want their rights back and they want their money to stop being sent to thieves and used to wage war against people we don't even understand. and we keep asking for it, and we believe every guy that comes along and says he's not those things— bush said it, obama said it, and they both are tied up in all of that garbage. yes, obama is on the left side of the aisle and is passing environmental and health care reform. but when it comes to how the government works and wastes everyone's money and wastes young peoples' lives, he's just like bush. and i don't think the republican candidate will be any different.
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