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  #11  
Old 06-28-2010, 11:23 AM
stimpee stimpee is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

I think people are asking too much here. Give the guy some time. It may not look on the surface as if he has done anything, but steadying the ship has to be the highest priority. The mess that the country is in does not call for radical new bills to shape america. It calls for financial management to stop the slide. I dont think people truly understand just how close the US economy came to collapsing completely under Bush.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2010, 11:25 AM
34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

Yes but I think it's a mistake to say that Bush was responsible for everything. I am sure the economy would have collapsed under Kerry or Gore or whoever else you'd put in.
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:19 PM
Strangelet Strangelet is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j View Post
Yes but I think it's a mistake to say that Bush was responsible for everything. I am sure the economy would have collapsed under Kerry or Gore or whoever else you'd put in.
yes and no. would sub prime and toxic derivative mortgages have burst? Yes. Would the federal government be forced to push itself into insolvency and lower global credit rating with a weaker dollar with stimulus spending? No. Not with the surplus budget Bush enjoyed.

Of course conservatives don't like to make a correlation between the economy and military spending deficits. They act like the money for Iraq and Afghanistan came straight from Jesus.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:06 PM
bryantm3 bryantm3 is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

i like the guy, but he doesn't have any balls. he doesn't have the ability like many past democrats have had to get congress by the nuts and do some wheeling and dealing. he just kind of has an idea, then lets congress destroy it and add garbage to it, then he signs it. the problem isn't obama's ideals, it's that congress is screwing everything up and he doesn't have the ability to challenge them on anything.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:29 PM
stimpee stimpee is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

The subprime thing would have happened without Bush. But the cash reserves that the USA had before Bush blew it all in Iraq would have been more than enough to sort it out.
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelet View Post
yes and no. would sub prime and toxic derivative mortgages have burst? Yes. Would the federal government be forced to push itself into insolvency and lower global credit rating with a weaker dollar with stimulus spending? No. Not with the surplus budget Bush enjoyed.

Of course conservatives don't like to make a correlation between the economy and military spending deficits. They act like the money for Iraq and Afghanistan came straight from Jesus.
Spot on, there. I argue with a staunch conservative over on a private board with friends and I have pointed out numerous times there that the Tea Party and their ilk cannot have a serious discussion about fiscal policy unless they are also willing to examine the effect defense spending has on the budget.

When Obama had his healthcare debate-tour-thing some months back, there was only one Republican who had a grasp of reality and he pounced on Obama pretty hard (Obama had demolished the GOP in their own forum leading up to that). Paul Ryan, R-Wis, had some very sobering things to say back then about healthcare. He also had some things to say about the fiscal crisis going forward, suggesting there would have to be cuts all over the place. The GOP decided they should champion Ryan's intelligence and fiscal conservative principles but none of them, apart from maybe Ron Paul, were in any way about to endorse his proposals for making benefit cuts as a nice portion of that came from social security.

I think Obama has been really good on the foreign policy front, in some ways, and too much like his predecessor in others. But I think his presidency as a whole will be decided on only two factors: the state of unemployment and the economy come voting time. His biggest test is coming in next year's budget cycle, when discretionary spending is supposedly going to be frozen.

Much of 2012 also has to do with who ends up running for the GOP. I don't think Sarah Palin is dumb enough to do it. The GOP machine must have people telling her she can do much more help being the peanut gallery, lobbing potshots from the safety of Fox News and not on a campaign trail. So who will it be? As far as I can tell, the GOP is in worse credit shape than the government is, having added bankrupt fiscal ideas to a socially radical agenda. If they are dumb enough to nominate someone who appeals to the fringe right AND if there is sustainable growth in the economy AND if "real" unemployment drops to under 10%, Obama wins in a landslide.
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Troy McClure Troy McClure is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

My disagreements with President Obama are that the major landmark bills that have passed aren't progressive enough.

I don't think there is a serious alternative to campaign against President Obama. Ms. Palin would never run because she makes too much money, and I think that's what drives her. Mitt Romney can't stick to a narrative for more than two weeks, and I think he would run a bad campaign.

I do think many of the economic disasters under President Bush would have occurred eventually. That repealing of the Glass-Steagal Act was a effing disaster when Clinton was president. But the multi-trillion tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, plus dishonesty about the cost of wars made a bad situation worse.

And the GOP mantra is to deregulate even further. That is idiotic.

From 'Center on Budget and Policy Priorities'
Where the budget debt actually comes from
http://tinyurl.com/ygazdtr




I think if someone other than Harry Reid was Senate majority leader, the Senate would be more productive.

--Jason
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2010, 02:27 AM
stimpee stimpee is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

Informative article and shows exactly what a mess the country is in. Obama could do more but I wonder how much his hands are tied by this financial mess. I cant see how a GOP govt could do any better. The country needs someone sensible to run it, not a brainless right wing populist making tax cuts for the rich.
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  #19  
Old 06-29-2010, 05:06 AM
//\/\/ //\/\/ is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelet View Post
Of course conservatives don't like to make a correlation between the economy and military spending deficits. They act like the money for Iraq and Afghanistan came straight from Jesus.
i think all sides have their heads up their collective arses as far as that is concerned. talk about an elephant in the room...

probably lots of former communist leaders laughing and sniggering at the irony of it all... ''look, yuri - they've only gone and done the same as we did!"
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  #20  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:35 AM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Default Re: obama 2012 (?????)

guys who don't have any balls...Itīs all right with me

I mean less testosterone in certain countries would bring peace in many ways

apropos military spending, wars, ... and so on
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