Arizona - WTF?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Ummm well no politican ever would ever purposely say that immigration in general is hurting us

Serious?

Originally Posted by Rex

either fucking imbeciles or racist. Line up and pick your favorite badge.

Isn't there one with both on?

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Who would ever say something like that?

It's like when people jumped on some of the stupid stuff GW Bush would say even when it's clear he misspoke, like he's having Fraudian slips and really telling the truth
Some people aren't great at public speaking. Obviously no one would ever mean it like that.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by Rex

I'm from Utah where people are proposing the same bill. And I'm calling racism. The same racism that went around beating the "english should be the official language of Utah" drum. I'm also not ever moving back in case it passes. That's how serious this is. What I find interesting is conservatives who aren't even around the border calling liberals who are around the border arm chair critics.

Even more hilarious are conservatives who bitch and moan about the jobs lost to illegals just because hector just washed their dishes on the way back to shopping at walmart where everything buyable was made in china.

Multi-nationals sending *ALL* jobs to china or Lupe washing your dishes. Conservatives who can't point to the problem in this scenario are either fucking imbeciles or racist. Line up and pick your favorite badge.

Well this isn't really the scope of the problem at all. Obviously the illegals aren't getting the best jobs but still, they're willing to work for less than minimum wage and can operate "off the books" so yeah many companies don't have a problem hiring them and that is a problem for us. Even if it is just farm and factory, our economy isn't exactly super healthy and there are a lot of people on welfare/unemployment who would like those jobs.

Don't take this the wrong way you sound like someone who has never really experienced Mexican drug violence or has never lived in a neighborhood (as I have) where most people DON'T speak English. I remember a laundromat that had a "we speak English" sign, and taking it to be kind of confrontational until I realized that many of the businesses in the area DIDN'T have many English-speaking employees. It's not a huge problem but if we get huge influxes of people that don't speak English you can see how it would be.

[Rex]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Well this isn't really the scope of the problem at all. Obviously the illegals aren't getting the best jobs but still, they're willing to work for less than minimum wage and can operate "off the books" so yeah many companies don't have a problem hiring them and that is a problem for us. Even if it is just farm and factory, our economy isn't exactly super healthy and there are a lot of people on welfare/unemployment who would like those jobs.

Let's maybe pause and I give you an opportunity to prove that illegal immigration has been a negative affect to the economy.
meanwhile...

If SB1070 passes, the support immigrants provide to the local economy will be lost, causing falling productivity. The cost to ensure correct identification for every search or arrest will be also huge.

So, again, you're using arguments about the economy that can be refuted in one minute of google time. Google Arizona Economy. Which makes me wonder: why isn't the one minute worth the investment, if it means you won't have to smear an entire ethnic group?

And why are the banks and construction companies excused from this mob? They hired them illegally. They gave them money to send back to mexico attached to a note saying bring everyone else. Why isn't AZ passing a bill that allows the police to ask for payroll sheets from every employer it meets. And if the employer doesn't have it with them, they'll got to jail until they are proved innocent?

I mean illegal immigration is such a biiiigggg fucking problem right?

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Don't take this the wrong way you sound like someone who has never really experienced Mexican drug violence or has never lived in a neighborhood (as I have) where most people DON'T speak English. I remember a laundromat that had a "we speak English" sign, and taking it to be kind of confrontational until I realized that many of the businesses in the area DIDN'T have many English-speaking employees. It's not a huge problem but if we get huge influxes of people that don't speak English you can see how it would be.

Look dude, it sounds like you've been a victim of violence or something and sure that sucks. Lets put aside for a second that "mexican" drug violence is any more exquisitely unique an experience than say russian drug violence, or english drug violence, or american drug violence.

this immigration bill is not the answer.

having these kind of dialogs, reading the comments on news sites, I think people have lost their fucking minds. I truly worry for the american republic.

[Troy McClure]

The next item on my state's to do list is to pass a state law that doesn't give birth certificates if the parents can't prove their status. This is proposed by the same State Senator Russell Pearce who wrote SB 1070 with the help of F.A.I.R.

US Senator Jon Kyl, from AZ also, is taking up the cause to repeal parts of the 14th amendment in the Constitution.

Also under the radar is a candidate for Arizona Corporation Commission, an elected body that decides public utility issues for the state. Republican candidate Barry Wong is campaigning on the idea that would require utility companies to require proof of status before getting electricity, running water or natural gas. For what it's worth he is a grandson of Chinese immigrants.

Jason

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

I never said it was a biiiiig fucking problem, but it's not a good thing now is it? Like, ultimately I think we ought to make the immigration process a little easier than just kicking them out. I realize the whole argument is "they take the jobs no one wants" but that's a little difficult right now...our unemployment rate is huge and there are plenty of people who want those jobs. That article didn't really have any hard data but even accepting it's true the fact is why even have the law at all if we're not going to try to enforce it? I can link sites with data to back up that maybe it's not such a great thing like this one: http://www.usillegalaliens.com/ I don't really like the tone of that site but I doubt that it's all bullshit.

Anyway what exactly do you mean "smear an entire ethnic group"? Is that what you think I'm doing? I mean it's not exactly the Canadians causing these problems is it? I'm not saying Russian drug violence in America isn't a problem or that we don't have our own drug problems, but we're not exactly leiniant on those issues so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. Ultimately this bill is really just going to give police officers (half of which are Mexican, by the way) the power to enforce the law as written. The point of this is not "wow, we should do something about all the brown people" but rather "wow, we should do something about the fact that we're averaging one kidnapping per day in this state".

If you don't think illegals are a problem don't you feel that we should just open the borders entirely? How would you see that working out?

Once again I feel like 90% of the reaction to this is the same type of hysteria we had with the Patriot Act 8 years ago...yes it gives the government some pretty scary power but in the end they're not going to just use it on random innocents to read their emails. I don't get the impression that they're going to be just randomly taking brown people to jail because of this bill either. Because the lawmakers KNOW what they're getting into with this bill; they know that AZ has a huge Latino population and most of those guys vote. You do know that Latino people are projected to overtake Causasians in America population-wise by 2050, right? Don't you realize how incredibly dumb it would be for any politician to anger that group?

[Rex]

Originally Posted by Troy McClure

US Senator Jon Kyl, from AZ also, is taking up the cause to repeal parts of the 14th amendment in the Constitution.

I applaud him on his ability to find the parts in the constitution his state is actually taking a shit on.

Originally Posted by Troy McClure

water or natural gas. For what it's worth he is a grandson of Chinese immigrants.

not worth much at all. everyone in the country is an immigrant. I mean except the mexicans, they are actually at least partially indigenous.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Don't take this the wrong way you sound like someone who has never really experienced Mexican drug violence or has never lived in a neighborhood (as I have) where most people DON'T speak English. I remember a laundromat that had a "we speak English" sign, and taking it to be kind of confrontational until I realized that many of the businesses in the area DIDN'T have many English-speaking employees. It's not a huge problem but if we get huge influxes of people that don't speak English you can see how it would be.

Have you ever experienced White People drug violence? Dat sh. craaazzziiieee!

Originally Posted by Rex

I applaud him on his ability to find the parts in the constitution his state is actually taking a shit on.



not worth much at all. everyone in the country is an immigrant. I mean except the mexicans, they are actually at least partially indigenous.

I don't know about everybody else, but this Rex guy is hilarious. I hope you stay around longer, this place has been so half in the grave the past few years . . . an'all ya know......

[Rex]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

I never said it was a biiiiig fucking problem, but it's not a good thing now is it? Like, ultimately I think we ought to make the immigration process a little easier than just kicking them out.

We are in agreement here. I don't like the lawlessness of the situation either.

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

I realize the whole argument is "they take the jobs no one wants" but that's a little difficult right now...our unemployment rate is huge and there are plenty of people who want those jobs.

No, the argument is "they take the jobs we offered them in the first place out of our greed." During the housing boom they were key to AZ expansion, they allowed more houses to go up in less time, allowing more mortgages and all the service sector to gain from the housing boom. And we used the little brown people because they were cheaper and worked their asses off without complaint. Now that the boom is busted, they simply supply a great punching bag.

Let me reiterate this because I think my point was missed. there are no jobs in this country. We have no manufacturing base. 2/3 of all employment is in the service and credit sectors, supplying services and credit to an economy that produces nothing. All Jobs are in China. We now have american companies using bail out money to build factories in other countries to supply products to us. We now have american companies building factories in other countries to sell shit to china's rising consumer base. It came out that Goldman Sachs sent a significant chunk of its bail-out money overseas. Gorilla Glass, a hot new industry worth "billions", an american invention 30 years ago will see a boom of job growth in China.

The middle class in this country is getting squeezed out like a wet wash rag.

And I am laughing my ass off that I have to illustrate this point even more than I have, but how much sense does it make, in this situation, to bitch and moan about the lawn care industry going to the garcia brothers?

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

That article didn't really have any hard data but even accepting it's true the fact is why even have the law at all if we're not going to try to enforce it?

Enforcement is not a state police jurisdiction. so says the constitution.

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Anyway what exactly do you mean "smear an entire ethnic group"? Is that what you think I'm doing?

I think some of the things you've said, and the arguments you've made go into mob politics. The same mob that's being stoked all over a disenfranchized unemployed middle class that is incapable of looking at the real causes of their situation.

here's a link refuting the hysteria around kidnapping in AZ

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...-capital-worl/


And incidentally I don't advocate an open border. I advocate a guarded border. What I also advocate is something less than a police state to solve the problem.

I could go on talking about Joe Arpaio and his links to private prison firms, how he has already made promises to go on raids god knows where and fill his tent prison where there is "plenty of room", how there are already reports of police so gung ho they are harrassing buses of native americans but what is the point.

Enjoy your fascist, broke ass ignorant country free of illegals. I just hope americans can look themselves in the eye one day and take responsibility for the part they played in the disaster playing out now, and soon to be in the future.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Rex. Rocks.

I have new reason to annoy the ____ outta everyone. Again.