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#81
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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#82
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Yep. I see stolen photos and even illustrations all the time. The internet has made that super easy.
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#84
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
that definition of theft is at least partly based on the assumption that there's a scarcity of the good in question. If you steal someone's car, that person loses his car. If you download an album, the artist doesn't lose that music, nor does the retailer lose a physical product (cd/lp).
The artist and retailer might have lost a sale if the downloader would have bought the physical product if the free download was not available. This is not certain though. Just saying that with the current state of technology there is a definite grey area in the whole downloading=stealing debate IMO. I can't claim to be completely on one side or the other myself. I've definitely downloaded music and software for free that otherwise I might have bought, but I do also buy a lot of music and software that I might not have bought if I hadn't downloaded it "illegally" first (I put that in quotes cause over here downloading music is actually still legal, but uploading isn't).
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"I have always LOVED Underworld" - Sir Elton John |
#86
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
pototobroth: are you telling me you've never downloaded any music you've not paid for? (assuming it wasnt given away).
I'm not trying to justify _my_ downloads. I've downloaded lots, but it has led me to buy lots of music that I wouldnt have otherwise which I think is the general argument here. Theres no way that if the only way I could listen to music was to buy it or listen to 30 second clips that I would have bought so much music. Thats just the state of play right now. Its not theft, but its definitely copyright infringement. There is no justification, just a listening path which leads to investment.
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UW0764 || Professor: "Underworld have never failed to disappoint me" || Yannick changed my avatar picture. |
#87
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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On this, I disagree. It's fair to assume that a certain portion of the illegally downloaded files in most people's collections are indeed representative of lost sales. Quote:
That being said, your questions above aren't really that hard to answer. One, there are many ways to be exposed to hearing music we would have otherwise never purchased, but none of them justify theft. Back when I used to frequent more record stores, I was constantly hearing them play something I had never heard of, and would find and buy it right there and then. That's how I came across some of my favorite groups as a matter of fact, like One Dove, Voices of Kwahn, and many others. But there's a crucial difference now with illegal downloads, which is that instead of hearing it being played in a store and then buying their own copy, people download something they've never heard of, like it, and then simply never pay for it. You mentioned earlier that you downloaded some Primal Scream albums which led you to attend one of their concerts. I assume that means you enjoyed the albums, yes? So then did you ever buy official copies of them? Quote:
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In your second point, your hypothetical person has denied the artist return on their investment in booking the venue, paying the band members, lighting set-ups, roadies, transportation, live performance equipment, etc, etc. Buying a t-shirt helps defray the cost of designing and manufacturing merchandise, but not the concert. Your third point about illegally downloading software was already addressed as well. When you buy software, you're helping pay for all the costs that have gone into developing and marketing that software. When you subsequently purchase upgrades, you're helping pay for all the additional research and development that's gone into improving the program. So ultimately, in all three scenarios, you're bizarrely trying to justify stealing one thing by paying for another. That just doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. You're not the one who decides what you should pay for and what you should take for free - the people who own and provide the goods and services in question are. What in the world would make you feel like you're entitled to steal something from someone as long as you pay them for something else later on down the road? Quote:
I can't be certain exactly how much it cost them, but I do know that one of the singles in question actually charted in the UK, so it's popularity certainly wasn't reflected in it's sales (or lack thereof).
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Download all my remixes Last edited by Sean; 07-29-2009 at 06:36 PM. |
#88
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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I'll be honest though, aside from live gigs I haven't illegally downloaded in a LONG time. I iTunes everything now. Same goes for software; I buy all of it now. I'm not saying this to be preachy or whatever, I just never understood the argument in favor of downloading music for free. Heck, I have a good friend, who is a BIG Underworld fan, who didn't even purchase OWB. How fucked up is that? He got hold of a copy a few weeks before release, burned that to a disc to tide him over til the proper launch, but never actually went out to get the album. Now, that friend has put tons of money in UWs pockets thru live gigs, merch, you name it. But still to this day I still find it strange that he never purchased the actual CD of the band he loves -- no, it wasnt me. |
#89
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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The philosophical argument can be made about ownership of less tangible forms of artwork, but ultimately, people need to respect the fact that an artist creating a piece of art and selling it is no different than any manufacturer out there making any other product that they sell. Quote:
Oh dear lord.
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