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  #51  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:14 PM
BeautifulBurnout
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Ben Goldacre did his usual expert hatchet job on the dodgy statistics being bandied about by industry and government as to how much revenue is "lost" as a result of downloading in his Bad Science column in the Grauniad.
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  #52  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:20 PM
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
Sweden's Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament. The group - which campaigned on reformation of copyright and patent law - secured 7.1% of the Swedish vote. The result puts the Pirate Party in fifth place, behind the Social Democrats, Greens, Liberals and the Moderate Party.

Swedish pirates capture EU seat
aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! t'is a fine thing, t'be sure! aaaarrr!
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  #53  
Old 06-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Sean
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Proof View Post
I can't say that I agree that the issue is about who's getting hurt and how, but whether or not the site owners are complicit in any way. In my mind this is really a slippery slope. Some of the content on TPB isn't copyrighted, and some is but the problem that I see is that if Ginsu's not liable for every person that's been murdered by their knives and if Hoffman-La Roche isn't liable for every sexual assault that happens because of Rohypnol, then how are the guys from TPB guilty of anything? TPB helps people commit illegal acts but what about movies that glorify violence?

I think that society's definition of complicity is way too vague to force these guys to pay $4,000,000 and a year of incarceration.
Well let's be real about this specific case. The website was designed largely for the purpose of sharing copyrighted material, all the way down to their name. I mean seriously - "Pirate Bay" is a pretty blatant announcement of their intent. And like any of the copyright law-abiding companies out there, they could very simply set up their site in a way that fights illegal sharing - employing filters that identify copyrighted materials, having site administrators who keep on the lookout for abuse, banning members who make copyrighted material available, etc. Simply because we live in the digital age doesn't mean responsibility is no longer relevant.

Don't get me wrong, I have no great love of big-ass record labels, or even big movie studios despite being employed by one. If I didn't need money to survive, I would be working on my own projects all the time, not on these gigantic, "four-quadrant", hundred million dollar movies. But that being said, people and companies are entitled to protecting their products and belongings. Pre-digital age, the equivalent of "Pirate Bay" would be something like "Shoplift Express", and they would be providing the means to remove those bulky old CD security cases that they used to use in music stores. But would we be having a debate about whether it was right or wrong to purposefully facilitate shoplifting? Probably not. Somehow, because we're talking about digital files being stolen instead of physical products, it's become something to support and even celebrate in many people's eyes.

And just in case anyone has missed when I've said it in the past, I also don't agree with the harsh measures being taken by large labels/studios - there's no justification to absolutely destroy Jane or John Doe's entire financial existence as retribution for having a few hundred illegally downloaded songs. They could just demand the cost of the illegal files along with a reasonable fine to discourage illegal behavior, and call it even. But to pretend that there's nothing wrong with stealing music or movie files is, in my opinion, ignorant, selfish, short-sighted, and typically damaging to small, independent artists. A company like Pirate Bay sets a horrible example, and I'm all for seeing them shut down, or forced to modify their business model to be in line with copyright laws. As a professional artist both in film and music, I've witnessed artists being screwed over time and time again when they didn't have proper copyright protections in place, so to see the power of copyrights being nullified is extremely disheartening.
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Last edited by Sean; 06-08-2009 at 05:17 PM.
  #54  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:45 AM
chuck
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
And in Australia - they're going after the music that's played in cafe's, gyms, shops, the pub....

I'll have a little more Elvis with that thanks...

Quote:
CAFE and restaurant patrons could soon be eating in silence, after a proposal by Australia's largest record labels to increase the cost of background music by up to 2000 times.


The push to raise the cost of playing recorded music could also make gym membership more expensive unless fitness classes use artists excluded by Australian copyright laws, including Elvis Presley and Beethoven.
The bid by the Phonographic Performance Company of Australia, which represents more than 750 record companies, follows a decision by the Copyright Tribunal to approve an increase of 15 times the music costs for the nightclub industry, which was recently endorsed by the Federal Court of Australia.


The Australasian Performing Right Association, which collects licensing fees on behalf of composers and artists, has launched a separate action for a tenfold increase in the fees paid by nightclubs for recorded music.
Buoyed by the nightclub ruling, the PPCA is now targeting eateries. It wants to increase licensing fees in a 120-seat restaurant to $19,344 a year — up from $125. Small cafes would be slugged with a 4729 per cent yearly increase from $124 to $5860.


Action against fitness centres is under way and the PPCA has indicated it will review the cost of playing music in pubs, shops and hairdressing salons.


...


Mr Healey said illegal internet downloads were robbing the music industry of its main income source — CD sales — and the PPCA was looking for other ways to make money for record companies.


PPCA chief executive Stephen Peach said recorded music attracted patrons to venues and was significantly undervalued. "The rates we have historically charged are barely nominal and we are looking to establish a fair return. The cafe owner just has to ask if the music is worth it, and if it isn't they don't have to play it," he said.
I think you'll find they'll either ignore it - and play whatever iPod that's brought in - or they'll just not play any music.

Or. SHOCK HORROR! They'll source Creative commons licensed music - or get tunes direct from the artist and holy hell - the big record labels are still screwed.

What a sad bunch of little people run organisations like the PPCA.
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  #55  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:46 AM
Sean
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
And in Australia - they're going after the music that's played in cafe's, gyms, shops, the pub....

I'll have a little more Elvis with that thanks...

I think you'll find they'll either ignore it - and play whatever iPod that's brought in - or they'll just not play any music.

Or. SHOCK HORROR! They'll source Creative commons licensed music - or get tunes direct from the artist and holy hell - the big record labels are still screwed.

What a sad bunch of little people run organisations like the PPCA.
What the hell ever happened to, say, a 5% increase? They really have to shoot right for a 2000% bump? Stupid.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2009, 01:56 AM
chuck
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
What the hell ever happened to, say, a 5% increase? They really have to shoot right for a 2000% bump? Stupid.
Agreed - I think most people would understand a nominal increase - but this just seems like an insane amount to ask - during a recession, when most small businesses are struggling anyway.
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  #57  
Old 07-27-2009, 11:45 AM
Sean
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Just came across some interesting stuff in a profile page of one of the smaller, independent musicians I've been mentioning that has suffered from illegal file-sharing:

The changes in the technologies and the attitudes of everyone toward the World Wide Web are all extremely exciting to me. Even so, my last three records have been stolen in their entirety by torrent sites and as a result, sadly we can no longer release records. It has been extremely frustrating but like many of my fellow artists, I feel that at least my work is out there and being listened to. I do get many promises from folk who say they love the music. I even get emails of great encouragement, but if everyone that visited my profile on Myspace, Facebook, or my personal site bought just one track for £1 or even an album, it would make a really big difference to us. So if you can afford to, please do visit, listen and BUY at julieishername.com

How many of us are illegally downloading songs and tunes when we can afford to buy?

Make no mistake! IT IS KILLING NEW MUSIC AND STARVING OUT OTHERWISE EMERGENT ARTISTS!

With the entire hullabaloo about how bigger labels and chart artists are losing millions, it is the smaller, independent labels that are hardest hit by this. Most have no option but to shut up shop if more than one record get torrented. We can never make our outlay back nor pay our already long-suffering and underpaid artists their due (myself included).


Skipping ahead...

It is the bigger torrent sites, their organisers like The Pirate Bay and their internet service providers that must be taken to task now. They like to come across as if they are freedom fighters and rebels when in fact they are all just organized chancers and rip off merchants that make a lot of money gleaned from advertising while using the vehicle of OUR songs that they give away for free!

IT IS, INDISPUTABLY, FRAUD!

I believe that if most people were properly educated about the ramifications of illegal downloading for lesser-known artists, they would be more inclined toward the support of artists- especially if they know that their money goes into the pocket of artists direct.

You can see from my obsessive rant that this has rather taken up all head space for some time now but I don't apologize for being so passionate or for feeling so cross and protective about the work that I create.


Just thought I'd share since it comes from a musician/record label owner who has suffered the severe negative affects of illegal file sharing directly. I really hope that some of this information has some impact on someone out there, because the damage being heaped on independent artists by the actions of so many people out there is a huge problem. It's hard enough establishing yourself as a professional artist without then having your professional work stolen out from under you.
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Last edited by Sean; 07-27-2009 at 11:49 AM.
  #58  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:38 PM
34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
What the hell ever happened to, say, a 5% increase? They really have to shoot right for a 2000% bump? Stupid.
I think you're reading that wrong; they're actually asking for a 200000% increase. Good luck!!
  #59  
Old 07-27-2009, 01:26 PM
34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Pre-digital age, the equivalent of "Pirate Bay" would be something like "Shoplift Express", and they would be providing the means to remove those bulky old CD security cases that they used to use in music stores. But would we be having a debate about whether it was right or wrong to purposefully facilitate shoplifting? Probably not. Somehow, because we're talking about digital files being stolen instead of physical products, it's become something to support and even celebrate in many people's eyes.
I still disagree with this, this has more to do with the difference between a physical object and a digital one. If I shoplift 40,000 CDs, that is a big problem for the music industry - if I download the same amount, it's really not a big deal.
  #60  
Old 07-27-2009, 05:19 PM
Sean
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j View Post
I still disagree with this, this has more to do with the difference between a physical object and a digital one. If I shoplift 40,000 CDs, that is a big problem for the music industry - if I download the same amount, it's really not a big deal.
You're placing the value of a musical product solely on it's physicality, which is simply not the case. The production of an album involves hiring musicians that need to be paid, hiring people to work the recording and mastering sessions, paying for the use of a recording studio, the cost of marketing, etc. There are a ton of expenses that are often far more costly than just the physical media the album is burned to.

And even the monetary investments aside, there's the time and creative investment put in by the artists themselves. This is their livelihood. Like anyone, they can only afford to continue to do their job - making music - if it provides them with enough financial return to fund the process. If they put in the time and effort to create something and make it available for purchase, but you simply take it for free, then what return are they getting to make it possible for them to make more? Do you do something for a living that you could afford to continue doing even if it meant you'd be losing money rather than getting a paycheck?

And ultimately, when you take something that doesn't belong to you from someone that you're not supposed to, whether it's a physical item or intellectual property, it's stealing. Actually, are you familiar with the concept of intellectual property? You may not be based on your repeated claims that illegally downloading a digital file is somehow not stealing, or at the very least, not a problem.
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Last edited by Sean; 07-27-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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