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  #1  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:18 PM
stimpee
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Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...vote_again.php
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11438581
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11459404

Dutch party gives nod to coalition deal with Wilders

A pact to allow Dutch centre-right parties to form a government with the support of anti-Islamist populist Geert Wilders has cleared another hurdle. The Christian Democrats (CDA) ratified the deal at a meeting on Saturday by 68% in favour, with 32% opposed. As part of its programme, the government will ban the full Islamic veil in the Netherlands, parties say.

Dutch coalition deal involving Wilders takes shape

Dutch conservative parties have moved closer to a coalition deal hinging on the support of the anti-Islam party of Geert Wilders.MPs from the Dutch Liberal Party accepted the deal, which ends months of deadlock, after it was approved by MPs from Mr Wilders' Freedom Party. The Christian Democrats are due to take a final decision by Saturday. Mr Wilders said earlier that even if his party did not enter government it would still have "enormous influence".

Under the deal, Dutch Liberal Party (VVD) leader Mark Rutte is set to become prime minister, forming a cabinet with Maxime Verhagen's Christian Democrats (CDA). With just 52 seats between the two parties in the 150-seat parliament, they propose to form a minority government, which would rely on the Freedom Party's 24 seats to pass legislation by a tiny margin.Mr Wilders is due to stand trial next week on charges of hate speech for allegedly insulting Islam.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:05 AM
froopy seal
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
I remember being shocked that Wilders and his bunch scored so many seats. Admittedly, he seems to be intelligent and charismatic. In Germany we still have more than enough hateful, revisionist nutheads, some of them of a make similar to Wilders (the late Jürgen Rieger comes to mind).

What is it that people, voters see in those figures? Is it only the socially deprived, the unemployed, the bitter who are caught by those parties' hate speeches? A feeling of "Wow, there's somebody to oppose the corrupt establishment"? The imagination of "Finally, my vote is going to make a difference" (not caring about the contents of the party's programme)? Fear and selfishness, resulting in the hope that the banishment and discrimination of certain portions of culture and people will grant oneself an advantage in the struggle for relative wealth?

Or is it genuine xenophobia, ignorance and malice?
  #3  
Old 10-14-2010, 02:35 AM
bryantm3
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
it's fairly well known that europeans hate muslims (more than we do, lol) and jews. don't ask me why, but it's pretty consistent over time; it's not a new thing: see the banning of ritual slaughter in many european countries going back to the 30s and 40s.
  #4  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:35 AM
froopy seal
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
it's fairly well known that europeans hate muslims (more than we do, lol) and jews. don't ask me why, but it's pretty consistent over time; it's not a new thing: see the banning of ritual slaughter in many european countries going back to the 30s and 40s.
Don't want to go too deep into the new-world-old-world-hate thing, buuuut this seems, if I may say so, a little, ahh, too straightforward for my taste...
  #5  
Old 10-16-2010, 04:44 PM
lloyd
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
it's bollocks too
For instance, You can't buy veal meat in .nl which isn't halal / kosher.
What is forbidden, like in lots of other countries, is home slaughter under non-controled conditions. BSE amongst other health reasons and ethical/animal rights got us laws for that. Not religion.

Mister Wilders, to our luck, isn't too smart (although he is intelligent). His press outings are clumsy and his attacks on others is trowing mud expressed in streetlingo. Should he be a smooth talker like say a Tony Blair, and spill the same hate he dos now, then he would have a mass following.
Now most votes were against the sitting government and traditional parties.

And now those voters have what they voted for, a minority government supported by Wilders and his party. A problem in the making.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2010, 06:24 PM
Eikman
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
it's fairly well known that europeans hate muslims (more than we do, lol) and jews.
you gotta be fucking kiddin me.
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Dunwho
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
it's fairly well known that europeans hate muslims (more than we do, lol) and jews. don't ask me why, but it's pretty consistent over time; it's not a new thing: see the banning of ritual slaughter in many european countries going back to the 30s and 40s.
I cant get my head around on how many levels.. that whole statement... start to finish.. is more a reflection of YOU rather than Europeans... i hope that was a joke... cus if it wasnt it was fairly retarded... ... no in fact scratch that... its very very retarded..
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2010, 11:37 PM
bryantm3
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd View Post
it's bollocks too
For instance, You can't buy veal meat in .nl which isn't halal / kosher.
What is forbidden, like in lots of other countries, is home slaughter under non-controled conditions. BSE amongst other health reasons and ethical/animal rights got us laws for that. Not religion.
the 'government endorsed' method of slaughter involves shooting a nail into the brain of the animal, spreading brain matter throughout the rest of the animal. you tell me how that is more safe than the traditional method. sounds either nanny state or anti-semetic.

i'm not saying the US doesn't have its problems. out west (and here in the south as well, but GA is kind of more the 'southeast' than it is like TX, LA, MS, etc.) there is a lot of racism towards immigrant (and non-immigrant) hispanics, and it's completely intolerable by me. i went with my family to buy a car a couple of years ago, and the guy who did a test drive with us started making these broad-sweeping statements about hispanics, and we decided we'd never go back there again, forget buying their car.

but as much as the US is known for it's racism against hispanics, europe is known for its racism against muslims and jews. i mean, look at france for goodness' sake. they've treated the algerians who have been there for generations like second class citizens for a very long time. if you want proof look at the riots a few years back.

the same thing goes for banning kippot, taqiyah, islamic veils, etc. over the past few years. it's not 'separation of church and state', it's removal of basic human rights through thinly-veiled racism.

Last edited by bryantm3; 10-17-2010 at 11:42 PM.
  #9  
Old 10-18-2010, 01:44 AM
stimpee
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
the 'government endorsed' method of slaughter involves shooting a nail into the brain of the animal, spreading brain matter throughout the rest of the animal. you tell me how that is more safe than the traditional method. sounds either nanny state or anti-semetic.
EU has had cartridge based captive bolt stunning for around 15 years. Unlike the pneumatic based bolt stunning, it doesnt carry the risk of brain matter being spread into the animal. Pneumatic bolt stunning is banned in the EU, but not in the USA.

Not sure what the tight BSE-related EU regulations on animal slaughter have to do with Geert Wilders but carry on. I think the proportion of people active in ritual slaughter of animals in the Netherlands is very very small. The Netherlands is a massive producer of (halal) food on a big scale.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2010, 12:05 PM
lloyd
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
I said your perception of the truth in the .eu is false. And I will continue to say that.
The practice here in Holland is that all industrial produced veal is slaughtered under such conditions that it can be sold as kosher or halal. It's a fact, not a anti jewish tought I did come up with while wearing a brown shirt marching up and down the street.
I don't care what is save or not, I hate live animals on my plate. They have to be killed and if that is done under the watchfull eye of the Goth of tingaling I don't give a flying fart. It has to lay still in my pan.
While there was lots of problems with 'bad' meat on our markets we got laws who and where animals could be slaughtered and who is to controle what goes into the market.
Hormone treated cows were a commen sight here in the south of .nl and in Belgium. A whole maffia was controlling the meat industry. Murders were commited over this. It's good we got laws to regulate slaughter. (still no religious reasons, see?)
Now... because the dutch are always in for profit, in our slaughterhouses, ALL veal is first sedated with a blast of air. NOT A GUN Not a metal pin through the brain. Then it is processed and this can be done according to islamic, dabh, rules or jewish, shechita, rules. Everybody gets their veal the way they want it here in Holland. How is that anti religious? Where do I or any other person make this anti-semitic? Ignorance on your side.
While in the 70/80's (and it still happens very sporadically) there were cases of sheep/lamb slaughtering on little balconies of flats, in sheds or in the woods etc, by people who didn't think they could get their animal processed by their standards, animal rights people asked our government to stop this. Of course people who hate other people for their religion took this with both hands to spread their hate.
Nowdays you buy a sheep or lamb (with a known history) of a farmer and can have it processed at organised and (health)controlled temporairy slaughterhouses or special days IN official slaughterhouses during festivities. Yes your trailer can be checked at roadworthiness, if there's water for the animals, being asked how long your journey will be with the animals....
So.... tell me what is banned since 1930's by our supposed Nazi goverment?
There are tons of Kosher or Halal shops and butchers in Holland. Even in my tiny town (< 5000 people) there was a Halal food shop years before there was a pizza/kebab restaurant, still no MacDonalds or Subway or Starbucks here.
What is banned I ask you again? You stated that it was banned..

Nothing wrong with all this I think? Nanny state... well looking away when health and ethics are treathend is stupid too. How it is regulated nowdays was reached with all involved, not pressed upon the people who in the 70s weren't aware or able of the possiblity of getting the right meat. It did grow out of need. And is within Dutch laws.
Bloodthirsty people who see a hobby in killing whales or elephants in their own kitchen at industrial level while running around naked shouting curses at the goth of Ob-La-Di are to pity, I give you that. <sarcasm>

Of the fragmented news of ALL european countries you cherrypick you can't form an idea of what goes on here. Yes there is and was and always will be anti semitic and anti islamic and, which you forgot to talk about, anti christian shit going on.
In my liberal country, most people lead THEIR lives. There are people who fully follow rules of their believes, but that is a minority. Also everybody is free here, feminism set women (more) free. Some rules in peoples believes collide with our liberal laws/rules/habbits and we vent that. And will continue to do so. Nothing wrong with that I hope?
We think that strict cultural or religious rules prohibiting people from exploring their own possibilities in this world is wrong.
This took us ages to understand and reach and it is hard for us to see that other people in this world are still under threat of health or life when or if they try to explore their personality.
Understanding the question of the banning of religious artifacts within public positions takes a whole study I think. Not only rightwingers asked to ban the burqa etc, also women-right groups did. And those are very leftwing I can tell you.
Separation of church and state is a thing 1000s of people died fighting for here in (most of) Europa. Another study worth I think. We already, in holland, have an uncontrolled level in our democratic system, being our Queen, there is no need to have any uncontrollable church involved at any level.
Yeah you can downplay all that and shout hidden racism, the almost always working easy and cheap way out of a discussion because of running out of facts and arguments due to ignorance of the real world.
Under dutch law it is forbidden to drive your car while being disguised. Has been for ages. So it already is forbidden to drive a car while wearing a burqa. Nazi law? nah, just happens to be in our lawbooks and collide with everyday 2010.
Will this stand in court? I don't think so. In the south during carnaval, 10000s of people ride their cars to and from pubs and bars wearing masks or greasepaint and aren't stopped by police for that fact.

Europa isn't full of haters. It's the few haters that get media attention (hello FOX telly) you take for 16 million dutch people.

15,5% of the people voted for Wilders because the other parties failed in their eyes.
Wilders promised pension age would stay 65 where other parties said moving up to 67. A large % of votes came from just that fact. Suprise suprise, mister wilders was willing to take 66 or 67 if that point would be the reason a goverment with his party couldn't be formed (3 parties were needed to get majority) the day after the elections. So those voters are f*cked already.
He wants 3000 extra policemen, also this got him lots of votes. Those voters will be let down when this comes to parliament because it won't happen.

Is there hate, yes. Is there ignorance towards other habbits yes, loads more then hate. Are there 99.99% of the people who 364.99 days of the year don't give a sh*t what other people do or think and just want a quite night in, no nagging wife, feed their children, etc etc. I think that's more likely. What ever religion or cultural background they have, that is everyday life.

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