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  #51  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:34 PM
human151
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
so....what is so illogical about my argument?

Is it logical to say that there are problems with segments of the muslim population? Or is it illogical to say that they are not a problem? Is it illogical to say that people should become british if they choose to move to the UK? What is the fallacy in that argument?

Is it illogical to view this clip and come to the conclusion that there are problems within the british muslim community? They are yelling "allah Ackbar" as they are chasing the London Metropolitan Police. You want to tell me that there is not problem with that?

What is it about chasing police and throwing objects at them that makes god so great? What a bunch of fucking religious retards. They imigrate to England and do not respect your laws and intimidate the police and im the one who is illogical because I say that there is a problem?

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Last edited by human151; 02-18-2011 at 10:33 PM.
  #52  
Old 02-20-2011, 05:35 AM
BeautifulBurnout
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Unfortunately, Human151, you are doing what the majority of people do. You take the actions of some members of a particular ethnic minority, religious faith or race and, using the "all trees are green - that thing over there is green, therefore it must be a tree" kind of non-logic to tar every adherent with the same brush or, worse still, determine that it is because they are members of that group that they must be the same as everyone else in that group.

You have posted a youtube link from Jan 2009. Do you understand what that was about? What was the context of the behaviour of those youths on that day? Do you know what they were doing, what the police were doing, and why they were doing it?

Let me give you a clue, from none other than our own right-wing, tea-party supporting Daily Mail:
'It's not debatable,' they bawled. My chilling encounter with Britain's jack-booted paramilitary police
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  #53  
Old 02-20-2011, 05:44 AM
BeautifulBurnout
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Now to come to the EDL.

They are no more the voice of public opinion in the UK than you or I am. Their key membership is made up of a combination of a group of racist football hooligans who have grouped together under the name of Casuals United. They are led by a bloke who goes under the pseudonym of Tommy Robinson, but is, in fact, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a former member of a neo-nazi racist party called the BNP (and, frankly, a bit of a knob-end).

The law no longer allows people to be openly racist in the UK, but it still allows them to make inflammatory - and defamatory - statements about people according to their religion, so it is an ideal way of stirring up racial hatred, which is what these numpties do.
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  #54  
Old 02-21-2011, 05:38 AM
Deckard
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
Is it illogical to say that there are problems with segments of the muslim population?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
Or is it illogical to say that they are not a problem?
No.

What's illogical - or at least unreasonable - is everything else you've written. The frantic posting of links, for example...

Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
There are even so called "no go zones".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-Muslims.html

I'll leave you with this link about the muslim actress from the Harry Potter films...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70K3DP20110121

an "honor killing" this time, in Airizona...
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/24/mu...aleki-accused/

How many muslims feel the same way as the man from this link?
http://www.wordsandwar.com/2008/01/2...kill-infidels/

this clip shows what a UK muslim wants to happen in the UK.
Frankly it comes across as a bit unhinged, because:

(a) none of us denies that Islamic extremism is currently a big problem (and more widespread than Jewish or Christian extremism)
(b) none of us denies that this needs to be dealt with
(c) none of us denies that immigrants should adapt to a country's laws.

So why are you continuing to post these links? Do you think we're in denial about the problem? We are not. The point is they are not the logical endpoint of allowing a Muslim immigrant to dress in a sari.
  #55  
Old 02-21-2011, 06:09 AM
Deckard
issue 37
 
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Btw, what's also illogical - or unreasonable - are statements such as...

Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
European liberal cultures and Islam are incompatible.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
How can a devout muslim still practice their religion and still assimilate to the larger culture? Answer: they can't
Tell these things to our country's Muslim soldiers deployed on the front line in Afghanistan. Soldiers like Pte Shehab El-Din Ahmed El-Miniaw:

"My home is the UK. As a Muslim, that's the place I'd happily die for and kill for. That's the same way it's going to remain until my dying day. My entire soul belongs to the UK and I'm more than proud to fight for this country."

I doubt he thinks "the muslim religion is the polar opposite to liberalism" or that he "can't practice [his] religion and still assimilate to the larger culture". I'm sure he has absolutely no problem in "considering himself British" - and Muslim.

Or are you going to take the EDL line and claim that he's not a real Muslim? (a line, incidentally, also taken by extremist and more conservative Muslims.)

Perhaps you will try to defend yourself by reminding us that you never said all Muslims are extremist. True. You haven't been that crass. But in that case, your above statements are therefore baloney, are they not?

Perhaps you will point out all the bloodthirsty parts of the Qu'ran prove your point. But they do no such thing if there are a majority of Muslims who reject/ignore/re-interpret them, just as a majority of Jews reject/ignore/re-interpret the bloodthirsty parts of the Torah.

Perhaps at this point you will remind us that there are more Muslim extremists/Islamic literalists than Jewish or Christian. But I'll remind you that it doesn't matter to the argument - if the majority integrate just fine, then how does that prove Islam and liberal cultures are incompatible? As should be blatantly obvious by now, not everyone agrees on a single interpretation of Islam (though of course many like to insist that only their interpretation is the correct/true/reasonable one). The fact of the matter is that the British gay Muslims taking part in Islamic weddings are just as much Muslims as a member of the LGBT Christian Association is a Christian.

Finally, just so we can clear this up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by human151
The least [immigrants] could do is try to adapt, just a little, to the new coutries' culture. But a very large percentage of muslims choose to live as if they're still in a muslim country.
Define "very large percentage".

Note: I don't expect you to tell me what percentage of Muslims "choose to live as if they're still in a Muslim country". I just want you to tell me what kind of percentage range you are defining as "very large". About 80-100%?

Tell me that, then we will move onto what you mean by "live as if they're still in a Muslim country"...

And this time, please - address the points I'm making and the questions I'm asking, instead of completely ignoring them each time and firing off your own questions at me.
  #56  
Old 02-21-2011, 08:05 AM
stimpee
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
As an added point, I must say that all of the muslims i know personally are decent people (which should go without saying really).

Sounds like some people are letting what the media tell them shape their beliefs.
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  #57  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:21 AM
stimpee
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
http://www.hahastop.com/pictures/Fre...f_Religion.htm
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  #58  
Old 03-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Deckard
issue 37
 
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Daily Star reporter quits in protest at tabloid's 'anti-Muslim' coverage

The reporter was recently involved in stories claiming Rochdale council had spent taxypayers' money on "Muslim-only squat-hole loos". In fact, the toilets were neither paid for by the local authority or "Muslim-only".

Richard Peppiatt to proprietor, Richard Desmond:

Quote:
You may have heard the phrase 'the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil sets off a tornado in Texas.' Well, try this: 'The lies of a newspaper in London can get a bloke's head caved-in down an alley in Bradford.'
Richard's resignation letter in full.

Well done Sir. We need more like you.
  #59  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:13 AM
stimpee
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Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Not sure what this means for the Dutch. PVV support down from 15% to 11%. Could be lazy PVV Wilders voters. http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive..._is_set_to.php Still, good news that they dont have a majority...
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