Obama picks Rick Warren for inaugural invocation

[gambit]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081218/...xdMfpO3auyFz4D

I admire the idea of bringing in people from the right, but Rick Warren? A chief opponent to gay marriage, who compares it to incest and pedophilia?

[IsiliRunite]

Pray the gay away.

[cacophony]

okay i know this is just going to bring the hellfire, but i have to say i'm getting sick of this "prop 8" furor. i'm a strong supporter of gay marriage and i understand the anger. but those fighting the measure are now trying to make mortal enemies of anyone and everyone who ever dreamed of supporting the measure. and they're demanding that anyone and everyone they're supportive of join their furor. it's ridiculous.

[dubman]

it was actually a bit surprising to begin with. i think a lot of hopes were up and people feltt betrayed completely by the end result that someone, somewhere, has to be thrown under the bus for it.

i still have friends, who usually have a decent perspective on things, get completely passive aggressive about it.

i only think it's funny in the way that people are getting trolled out of their jobs for campaign cash, but i stopped dwelling on this thing about a month and a week ago.

i dont even care about this whole inaugural thing, apart from thinking it's only mildly lame. if obama wants to have as much of the broad american stripe of opinions then that's his ambition. i hope his melting pot outlook gets contagious but it frankly seems too optimistic to not get kneecapped by grumbling and bush-era-honed hysterics about whos screwing who. we're not shifting gears *that* easily.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by cacophony

but those fighting the measure are now trying to make mortal enemies of anyone and everyone who ever dreamed of supporting the measure. and they're demanding that anyone and everyone they're supportive of join their furor. it's ridiculous.

No hellfire here, but just to say I think that's probably an unfair characterization, even though I recognize it's getting (it got) counterproductive in parts. The goal of any campaign group is to get as much support and backing as possible, and I really get the sense that, as flawed as it has been, it doesn't deserve anything like the slating it's been receiving. I also think when people refer to minority groups "demanding" this and "demanding" that, it plays into a certain caritcature, the broader equivalent of "getting uppity".

--

On the Rick Warren choice, let's not downplay this - it's a prominent and unique role that he's been honoured with, and will go some way to hastening his reputation as America's next Pastor. No-one's suggesting his views will be driving the political position on homosexuality in Obama's administration, of course not. But there's a symbolic approval or respect that comes from being honoured in this way. Choices have to be based on more than just "reaching out", even though reaching out is usually "a good thing" (and I'm intrinsically uncomfortable denying anyone rights based on their beliefs, however despicable I personally find them).

For anyone who accepts that being gay is as innate and unchangeable as being straight, then it's fair to start making some comparisons here. If Obama appointed someone who had openly and repeatedly compared your marriage with the sexual abuse of children, I should think there would be a little more uproar going around. If he spouted similarly backwards views about black people and their marriage restrictions, then we wouldn't be heralding Obama's ability to embrace a diverse selection of views - because Obama wouldn't have picked him.

Whether that's right or wrong isn't the point. It's the fact that a line is still drawn at homosexuality that irks me more than the principle of reaching out to someone like this. I'm not greatly opposed to the choice in and of itself (though I share dubman's scepticism about how much it will ultimately achieve), but I am frustrated by the different standards that get applied - and I don't think that's a reflection of Obama's beliefs as much as it is of society's in general.

[//\/\/]

i think he's a cracking dj and his work with way out west isn't to be overlooked - obama's gonna rock the capitol with this selection...

[cacophony]

i think this mountain is a total molehilll. it's a prayer. delivered by a christian spiritual leader. 90% (probably more) of the christian leaders in this country do not support gay rights. if obama were to try to find a christian leader that was all shiny and happy about gay rights he'd have to go way out on the fringe to find anyone with the stature appropriate for the event. and i personally don't think the inauguration is the venue to be making fringe statements simply to give a nod to a group of people whose demands are not supported by the majority of the population.

and no, "demand" is not the same as "uppity." give me a break.

personally i just hate it when a group of people support a candidate and then wait for that "how's he going to pay us back" action. like if all the chicks banded together and voted for hillary, and then got all outraged if she didn't fill every damn cabinet position with a woman. WHAT ABOUT US??? WE SUPPORTED YOU!!!!!

i'm crabby today.

[gambit]

I was mostly scratching my head when I heard it. I understand not getting into a furor over Prop 8, but Obama certainly could've picked someone who was less in the spot light. But I've also heard this has angered conservatives as well, so yay?

But to give Warren his due, here's some bits from his Wikipedia file.

Warren has worked to shift the evangelical movement away from a narrow focus on social issues, such as abortion and gay marriage, to a broader social agenda. His five-point plan for global action calls for church-led efforts to tackle global poverty and disease, including the spread of HIV/AIDS, and to support literacy and education efforts around the world. In February 2006, he signed a statement backing a major initiative to combat global warming, thus breaking with some of the U.S.'s high-profile evangelical leaders, such as James Dobson, who had opposed such a move.

But also...

In 2005, during the Terri Schiavo controversy, Warren called Michael Schiavo's decision to remove Terri's feeding tube "an atrocity worthy of Nazism" and suggested that Michael wanted Terri to die because, if she regained consciousness, she might have "something to say that he didn‘t want said".

So I like his efforts to combat poverty, disease, and global warming, but I could do without his crazy stuff. What I sense is Obama wants to build support amongst evangelicals for his social programs. Politically, this is a very good move for him, and I hope it translates into real results.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by cacophony

i think this mountain is a total molehilll. it's a prayer. delivered by a christian spiritual leader. 90% (probably more) of the christian leaders in this country do not support gay rights. if obama were to try to find a christian leader that was all shiny and happy about gay rights he'd have to go way out on the fringe to find anyone with the stature appropriate for the event. and i personally don't think the inauguration is the venue to be making fringe statements simply to give a nod to a group of people whose demands are not supported by the majority of the population.

and no, "demand" is not the same as "uppity." give me a break.

personally i just hate it when a group of people support a candidate and then wait for that "how's he going to pay us back" action. like if all the chicks banded together and voted for hillary, and then got all outraged if she didn't fill every damn cabinet position with a woman. WHAT ABOUT US??? WE SUPPORTED YOU!!!!!

i'm crabby today.

Oh really? I'd never have guessed.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by gambit

I was mostly scratching my head when I heard it. I understand not getting into a furor over Prop 8, but Obama certainly could've picked someone who was less in the spot light. But I've also heard this has angered conservatives as well, so yay?

But to give Warren his due, here's some bits from his Wikipedia file.

But also...

So I like his efforts to combat poverty, disease, and global warming, but I could do without his crazy stuff. What I sense is Obama wants to build support amongst evangelicals for his social programs. Politically, this is a very good move for him, and I hope it translates into real results.

Yeah, there are certainly worse than Warren around. I'm not totally against this decision, it's just that I think it's interesting to be aware once again where the line (doesn't) get drawn.

(and I refuse to accept that I'm "creating a mountain" by simply saying that)