Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18

[aaron5000]

Originally Posted by stimpee

Bootleg distribution and discussions take place over at RTSR. Please make your requests over there.

How is it bootleg distribution? It was a stream that was linked on underworld live. Does this mean that links to autotrader and/or phonestrap should only be linked at rtsr as well?

The webcast is faaaaaar from being a bootleg.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by lloyd

the live cds that are sold now by underworld can't in any way shape or form be shared on rtsr.

okay.
dont get like that, i just thought it might be a gray area for a bit, due to the curse of being so limited and also pretty expensive to get all 6.
but it makes more sense not to.

[Jan]

Originally Posted by aaron5000

The webcast is faaaaaar from being a bootleg.

Come on, you seriously don't espect links to the whole stream here on this public forum!
If Underworld wanted to make the stream available to download they would have made recording a lot easier don't you think? Instead, they used a Quicktime stream that is almost impossible to record. Just because something is streamed freely to the would doesn't mean we can do with it whatever we want! A recording of the official stream is definately a bootleg, even if this might seem contradictory. When you look at Autotrader etc., the link is freely visible in the source code and I don't think UW would have something against downloading those little bits.
It's all about the artist's intent, although we can only guess as UW never stated directly what's okay (however, they tolerate RTSR if I remember correctly).
Does dirty forum need rules? Shouldn't we just use our common sense?
IMO links to one or two songs, Youtube vids etc. are okay, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

BeautifulBurnout: aaron has asked for the whole recordings, not just clips! There is no "over-zealousness" from Stimpee when he says that that's not okay.

[sanakan]

yes, it was broadcast, most of you seem to forget that it was in a format that was *very* difficult to record. plus the sound of it is distributed officiall.

--> definitly bootleg, and also half commercial.

bottomline: no silly questions here.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by Jan

Does dirty forum need rules? Shouldn't we just use our common sense?
IMO links to one or two songs, Youtube vids etc. are okay, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

BeautifulBurnout: aaron has asked for the whole recordings, not just clips! There is no "over-zealousness" from Stimpee when he says that that's not okay.

The line IS drawn, and quite clearly and palpably, at commercial product. Thereafter everything becomes a gray area. The Bang posts clips, and nothing is said. Ely posts clips and nothing is said. Quite naturally flowing from that, aaron5000 asks if there is any more available, and we are told we aren't even allowed to discuss it here. So where is the line overstepped? Is it asking for more of what we have already seen? Is it posting clips taken from the stream in the first place? Is it posting anything at all relating to bootlegs, including YouTubes from the gigs themselves? Is it the mere mention of anything that could be construed as a bootleg?

And you refer to Phonestrap/Autotrader etc. They were posted on UW Live as streams, not downloads, and were ripped by Dirts and posted on here for download (or at least it was so initially - I haven't checked that out recently). So following your own logic, irrespective of how easy or difficult it was to crack the code, they, too, are bootlegs. Aren't they? Otherwise they would have been supplied as free downloads in the first place. So that particular argument doesn't have legs at all, I'm afraid.

So, if we follow the "no bootleg discussion" argument that Stimpee is trying to make, effectively, in his opinion (and, again, I say that advisedly, because it is only his opinion as one of the many moderators on this board) either a) nothing should be discussed on here or posted on here that could conceivably fall into the bootleg category, which would include all of the above, or alternatively b) we have to try it out and see whether, in his opinion, it is acceptable or not. (And his opinion may not in fact reflect the opinion of other moderators or even the band itself.) The latter appears to be the status quo and is at best confusing and at worst irritating.

The "no commercial product ripping" rule is a simple one to apply and to police. Anything else falls into such a fuzzy non-definable area that people are never going to know what oversteps the mark and what doesn't. You cannot realistically police something in such an abitrary fashion.

As for aaron - he can always ask, and someone can always say no, we don't think this is correct if that is the policy. But to say "no, it is something you cannot talk about here but you can talk about it elsewhere" is kinda dumb in the context.

What is the message you are trying to send out? That we don't share bootlegs? That we do share bootlegs but shhh!... don't let the band know we do? Come on. Get real, chaps.

What bootleg. There is no bootleg. We are bootleg-less.

[sanakan]

Originally Posted by BeautifulBurnout

And you refer to Phonestrap/Autotrader etc. They were posted on UW Live as streams, not downloads

no, these were posted as files, not streams.
So, following general logic, your hole argument does not only have no legs, but also no foot and hands



why do we have to have the bootleg-discussion for the umpteeth time?

[dubman]

it was a streamed file.
you'd have to go into the source code, make the mov a link, download, and convert to mp3.

lots of people wouldnt bother.

and if this broadcast were so damn hard to rip then how did one out of the few who would be motivated enough to do it figure it out.

again, this broadcast is not ever going to be for sale, it was transmitted in streaming quality, it in no way could be sold for money, so it's not ripping off of anything

[dubman]

Originally Posted by sanakan

why do we have to have the bootleg-discussion for the umpteeth time?

because it's getting a little draconian at this point

[BeautifulBurnout]

OMG I agree with Dubman!

/me takes her temperature and pulse....


Any road up - the point I am trying to make boils down to this, logically:

Discussing ripping/sharing of the Tokyo CDs or current CDs on here was obviously bad.
Discussing ripping Tokyo when it was played at 96kbps on Dirty Radio was not bad.
Discussing ripping/seizing the stream of Cocoon was not considered bad except by Sanakan it appears .
Ergo, discussing ripping/sharing of clips from the recent streams at a miserable quality/bitrate is not bad.

Consistency, people, consistency! This is no way to run a whorehouse otherwise!
I rest my case.

[aaron5000]

Originally Posted by Jan

Come on, you seriously don't espect links to the whole stream here on this public forum!
If Underworld wanted to make the stream available to download they would have made recording a lot easier don't you think? Instead, they used a Quicktime stream that is almost impossible to record. Just because something is streamed freely to the would doesn't mean we can do with it whatever we want! A recording of the official stream is definately a bootleg, even if this might seem contradictory. When you look at Autotrader etc., the link is freely visible in the source code and I don't think UW would have something against downloading those little bits.
It's all about the artist's intent, although we can only guess as UW never stated directly what's okay (however, they tolerate RTSR if I remember correctly).
Does dirty forum need rules? Shouldn't we just use our common sense?
IMO links to one or two songs, Youtube vids etc. are okay, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

BeautifulBurnout: aaron has asked for the whole recordings, not just clips! There is no "over-zealousness" from Stimpee when he says that that's not okay.

Well considering I asked if it was posted anywhere also meant is there a place it has been placed on underworldlive that I had missed. So before anyone starts with the bootleg talk that should be taken into consideration.

Why are some clips permitted and others not? This is absurd. It would seem to me that it would fall into place of past streams that have been linked on this forum many times. One of these times it was a live vid/audio cast from lemonworld, and it was posted with a .cue to be able to split the files into individual tracks. Is it really hard to believe that some other stream that has gone through underworldlive has been asked for?

Originally Posted by dubman

because it's getting a little draconian at this point

Agreed.