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  #91  
Old 07-07-2019, 04:49 AM
taotsu
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
To me they are clearly EPs, both in length as well as content.
  #92  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:14 AM
iamneorev
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by taotsu View Post
To me they are clearly EPs, both in length as well as content.
Thank you.

I really threw a wrench in these Discog folk's thought process when they tried to use the band actually calling Drift Songs an album and not personally saying the Episodes were EPs. The band may call Drift Songs an album, but the single disc is actually a selection of tracks from the EPs and the 6CD being all the EPs together, thus making Drift Songs a compilation by Discogs' rules, NOT an album. I did link an article where it stated they would be releasing 5 EPs and an album, but they are saying that is not good enough.
  #93  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:10 AM
purlieu
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But on Discogs they have to be explicitly labelled EPs from a direct source (ie not a distributor / store) before they can be tagged as it.

Honestly, try not to get too hung up on Discogs stuff. I know how tempting it is to try and make it look neat and tidy and more logical, but fundamentally that isn't really the point of Discogs - it just exists to document what exists in the most accurate way possible. Truth is, with a series of releases like this, terms like album, EP, etc. are intentionally being blurred and made irrelevant. Don't worry about them too much.
  #94  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:13 AM
purlieu
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykeyz View Post
I really threw a wrench in these Discog folk's thought process
It isn't a thought process, it's about following the purpose of the site, which is gathering verified facts about each release into a database. I've had a peek, and the guy you're talking to also agrees that they are EPs, but as this isn't something the band have officially stated then it's still conjecture, and thus doesn't belong in a database that simply represents verified facts. This is the official line of Discogs submissions, and you'll never get around it, much as you try and argue with people on there.
  #95  
Old 07-07-2019, 01:56 PM
iamneorev
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by purlieu View Post
It isn't a thought process, it's about following the purpose of the site, which is gathering verified facts about each release into a database. I've had a peek, and the guy you're talking to also agrees that they are EPs, but as this isn't something the band have officially stated then it's still conjecture, and thus doesn't belong in a database that simply represents verified facts. This is the official line of Discogs submissions, and you'll never get around it, much as you try and argue with people on there.
Discogs does a lot of stupid things, such as placing releases in the album section that are clearly not albums and also putting live releases in the album section instead of its own section. It is amazing when they decide to follow rules and when they decide not to and when they decide to ignore logic. In the end, it seems like there are really no rules when a compilation can be called an album and an EP can be called an album or vice versa. For instance, Lorn called his latest release an EP and a mini album.

Last edited by iamneorev; 07-07-2019 at 01:58 PM.
  #96  
Old 07-07-2019, 02:37 PM
purlieu
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
When they first introduced the separation between album / EP / etc., there was an algorithm introduced to try and to it automatically, which is why things get put in there. It's probably due removal, to be honest. As for live releases, if a live album is a live album then it should be there I suppose.

I honestly think it was better about 10 years ago before they started separating between formats. It's caused no end of hassle trying to figure stuff out. Even so, the best thing you can do is just follow the submission guidelines and then you'll have no problems with your submissions.
  #97  
Old 07-07-2019, 03:25 PM
TheBang
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykeyz View Post
Discogs does a lot of stupid things, such as placing releases in the album section that are clearly not albums and also putting live releases in the album section instead of its own section. It is amazing when they decide to follow rules and when they decide not to and when they decide to ignore logic. In the end, it seems like there are really no rules when a compilation can be called an album and an EP can be called an album or vice versa. For instance, Lorn called his latest release an EP and a mini album.
I think there are two things that are preventing you from understanding how Discogs wants to operate.

The first is the sorting of the releases into different categories (albums, compilations, singles/EPs, Misc, etc.). As purlieu said, there's some old code and criteria that are not the greatest that makes for some messy sorting sometimes. You're just going to have to accept that you cannot affect that. There have been tons of discussions about it, and nothing's going to be changed with it in the near term. However, you cannot (and should not) tag formats based on how you want to force the releases to category sort.

Which brings me to the second item. The format tagging. In your posts, you've cited a lot of things that don't matter to Discogs, like number of tracks, duration, music retailer categorization, etc. You have to ignore all the stuff that you yourself normally consider or think of when you try to tag releases as singles, EPs, or albums on Discogs. In fact, the guidelines even say this: "Do not guess at or attempt to apply personal standards to these tags." In the guideline, the only thing that matters is, did the band/label/release refer to/designate it as a single or EP or album? If so, then you can use the tag. If not, then you can't. It's really that simple.

As for your poing about compilations, there are special rules about the Compilation tag, and it can absolutely be used in conjunction with other tags (it even says so first thing in the guideline: "The compilation tag can be used in conjunction with any other available tag, for example, 'Compilation, Album'"). So, for Drift Songs, it could, conceivable, qualify for both the Album and Compilation tags. However, we don't actually know yet, since we don't know what's going to be on the album. If it's all new songs, or different versions of the songs, it might not qualify for the Compilation tag.
  #98  
Old 07-07-2019, 03:42 PM
iamneorev
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
I think there are two things that are preventing you from understanding how Discogs wants to operate.

The first is the sorting of the releases into different categories (albums, compilations, singles/EPs, Misc, etc.). As purlieu said, there's some old code and criteria that are not the greatest that makes for some messy sorting sometimes. You're just going to have to accept that you cannot affect that. There have been tons of discussions about it, and nothing's going to be changed with it in the near term. However, you cannot (and should not) tag formats based on how you want to force the releases to category sort.

Which brings me to the second item. The format tagging. In your posts, you've cited a lot of things that don't matter to Discogs, like number of tracks, duration, music retailer categorization, etc. You have to ignore all the stuff that you yourself normally consider or think of when you try to tag releases as singles, EPs, or albums on Discogs. In fact, the guidelines even say this: "Do not guess at or attempt to apply personal standards to these tags." In the guideline, the only thing that matters is, did the band/label/release refer to/designate it as a single or EP or album? If so, then you can use the tag. If not, then you can't. It's really that simple.

As for your poing about compilations, there are special rules about the Compilation tag, and it can absolutely be used in conjunction with other tags (it even says so first thing in the guideline: "The compilation tag can be used in conjunction with any other available tag, for example, 'Compilation, Album'"). So, for Drift Songs, it could, conceivable, qualify for both the Album and Compilation tags. However, we don't actually know yet, since we don't know what's going to be on the album. If it's all new songs, or different versions of the songs, it might not qualify for the Compilation tag.
The number of tracks and duration is what another Discogs member brought forth to try to distinguish albums and EPs. He posted a link about what the different sites consider the standard for each format. Not me. My point was in response to that and I clearly said how the lines are being blurred in my posts above and how the number of tracks and albums doesn't matter anymore. Hence Nine Inch Nails calling what should technically be an EP an album by these standards that others pointed out and how these Drift Episodes would be considered albums instead of EPs if went by them. One of the first articles about Drift called these Episodes EPs, 5 EPs and an album, which is why I said the listings should be under the EP section, not the album or miscellaneous section. I am not putting a personal standard on them. I am calling them EPs because they were called that in an article where the band was specifically interviewed about the Drift series. They didn't pull the info out of a hat. They distinguished the EPs from the album that would come later.

Last edited by iamneorev; 07-07-2019 at 03:47 PM.
  #99  
Old 07-07-2019, 03:47 PM
holden
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Honestly, I do not now, nor have I ever, cared about discog's classifications. I've released plenty of music via netlabel, and they mess it up. But with an established, popular band like Underworld, that site would still not be the first place I'd consider for accurate info. Actually, you'll get more truth here!

Thanks for the links regarding the Drift album content. I'm still hopeful for a larger percentage of new, unheard tracks. But I'm fine with a Rick and Karl curated best of with a few extras (I have bought/downloaded every drift track, and pre-ordered the box set, so I hope I'm covered)
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  #100  
Old 07-07-2019, 03:52 PM
iamneorev
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Re: DRIFT SONGS - New album, Oct 25, 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by holden View Post
Honestly, I do not now, nor have I ever, cared about discog's classifications. I've released plenty of music via netlabel, and they mess it up. But with an established, popular band like Underworld, that site would still not be the first place I'd consider for accurate info. Actually, you'll get more truth here!

Thanks for the links regarding the Drift album content. I'm still hopeful for a larger percentage of new, unheard tracks. But I'm fine with a Rick and Karl curated best of with a few extras (I have bought/downloaded every drift track, and pre-ordered the box set, so I hope I'm covered)
Well I think even the tracks they select from the ones we know from the Episodes will be different from their Episode version on album as I read an article that made it sound that way.
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