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#72
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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As for Radiohead, I'd hardly call them emerging artists. They were already solidly established, and as such can count on a certain amount of guaranteed success with each release. Although personally, I don't view that as any kind of justification for stealing their albums. But that aside, my primary concern lies with lesser known artists who suffer the repercussions of your actions on a much more severe level. The people to whom every sale counts as they try to get their careers off the ground. Quote:
Or maybe we should apply the same thought process to downloadable software. I record my music using Reason. Since I already bought a previous version of the program, I might as well just steal any upgrades that come out for it from now on. Nevermind research and development costs, employee salaries, marketing costs, etc. - after all, they've already profited from me, and it's not a physical product. This line of reasoning is nothing more than weak justification for selfish, unethical, illegal behavior. As a final example, I'm currently working on my first album. As a partial list so far, I've had to join the local musician's union, upgrade some of my recording software, set up studio time, set up recording sessions with a guitarist, a drummer and a few singers, and have invested quite a bit of time into getting the first four tracks to a point where I'm ready bring in these other musicians. I still have to set up my own label so I can self-distribute the final album, master the tracks once they're done, create the visual artwork for it, assemble it all into a cohesive package, market it, etc., etc. - all of which will probably take me at least another year or two. And yet you think that after all of my personal and financial investment in creating this final product, it's no problem if you just hack into my private online storage site and download the album for free. That's "hurting no one" in your opinion. Well frankly, in a situation like this, your opinion doesn't matter. I'm the one who owns the intellectual property that is my album, and I'm choosing to put it on the market as a product meant to be purchased. If you want it, you're legally and ethically obliged to honor my wishes as said owner. As my sig says, you're free to go download all the remixes I have available online at no cost to you, but I need some return on the investments I'm making in this album. Simply put, you're not the one who dictates to me the price that you've decided you're going to pay for the product that I've created. That's my legal right, and if you violate it, you're wrong and should be held accountable.
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Download all my remixes Last edited by Sean; 07-28-2009 at 01:59 PM. |
#73
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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Also going to gigs pays bands more money than if you buys cds because the record company takes less/none of the cash, so doing it in reverse is worse for the band. I've blagged guest lists before to gigs, and then bought a CD later. Is this wrong?
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UW0764 || Professor: "Underworld have never failed to disappoint me" || Yannick changed my avatar picture. |
#74
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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Not sure what "blagged" means, but since when is it a solid argument to say that it's okay to steal something from someone because you could have stolen something from them that was more expensive?
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Download all my remixes |
#75
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
I'm not happy with the first point either, but thats how things are these days and its how artists are being discovered from giving their music away (unintentionally via torrents, or intentionally like Radiohead or The Charlatans and to a certain extent Underworld who gives us loads of free stuff). Its not a clear cut justification to steal the music but if you do discover a band via downloading and then give money to the band afterwards it has to be seen as a positive thing. Good things come from bad.
I see your point about the own label thing. Blagging means begging or scrounging or being cheeky and asking the right people for the guest list. But this is just a small part of the 'hospitality' that venues have.
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UW0764 || Professor: "Underworld have never failed to disappoint me" || Yannick changed my avatar picture. |
#76
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
I don't see the connection between giving away music for free (ala Underworld's Riverrun series) and downloading a leaked pre-release copy of Oblivion With Bells and then never buying a copy because "I fully intend to go see them live when they come to my city."
I can't believe this thread is multiple pages of people defending stealing intellectual property. Its stealing. You've taken something that has a cost/value associated with it and taken it without paying that cost. That is the very definition of theft. Argue all you want about who it hurts, or who it helps, but its all moot. If I declare that my album is worth $10, and that to own my album you need to pay $10, and you download it for free, you just stolen that album. |
#77
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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1. A guy who has never heard of your band is burned a copy of the CD by a friend, and then buys a ticket to a show. 2. Someone sneaks into a non-sold out concert, likes the music, and buys a T-shirt 3. Someone downloads a copy of a certain software, but likes it enough to buy the next version when it comes out. Now, according to what you're saying, all three of these people are immoral, selfish, and acting outside the law. However in all three cases, the artist/band/software company has made money from this behavior at NO COST. I'm not saying downloading music is ethically sound. I know it would be bad if EVERYONE did it and nobody bought CDs. But that's just not what's happening now and probably not what's going to happen in the future You can be upset that your friends are no longer able to make music because they only sold 1,000 copies of a disc due to everyone downloading. But how do you know that the disc wouldn't have sold only 500 if nobody downloaded it? Last edited by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j; 07-29-2009 at 07:49 AM. |
#78
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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2. Sneaking into a non-sold out concert is illegal. T-shirt or not, the venue didn't make the expected money off of you, the band didn't make the money off of you, and its a slap in the face to the concert-goers who shelled out their cash as well. 3. Stealing. Last edited by potatobroth; 07-29-2009 at 08:02 AM. |
#79
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
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#80
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Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
To all who made the mistake: Theft/stealing and copyright infringement are different concepts. Please try your best not to confuse the two.
Also it's maybe hard to accept for some musicians but they don't "own" anything. We (the public) merely granted them a temporary exclusive right (should be around 10 years, but due to lobbyism etc. 50+ years now) to market their creations. We do that because we want to hear more music in the future. Fact: If you don't want people to hear your music, don't release it. Once an idea is out there, how do you want to stop it? Another fact: There is no shortage of good music; so apparently the situation is not as bad as some people describe it. If you are a musician and nobody buys your album, maybe it isn't the fault of "The Pirate Bay", but maybe it's because the music is bad?
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