Spanish Olympic basketball team racist photos

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by Deckard

(as usual)

I really do make the beat pot of beans around. My Papa & I argue over whether lard or bacon fat works best for the refrying portion.

[sanblaster]

Oh my fucking god.



I just came back from Alicante. In 48 hours or so, when my ears are clean of sand I will try to write a proper reply.

[Sean]

And now the Argentinian women's soccer team has been found to have been photographed making the same, ignorant, stretched eye gesture.

And an article about the overall issue of apparent acceptability of racial slurs in Latin countries here.

This has been quite an eye opening display for me. No pun intended.

[IsiliRunite]

I don't think this classifies as racism to a lot of people who live in countries that lack ethnic diversity, just to mention that point. Most of us interact with people on a daily basis of a different ethnicity and value their character over their outside appearance, so we are most offended when there seems to be a judgement made on meaningless-to-us physical appearance. Chinese people are foreign, different, and obscure to the Spanish; nobody brought up the racist overtones and being offensive to Chinese because the half-way around the world Chinese are not quite 'real' people to these athletes. I believe the picture was a result of certain Spanish people subconsciously finding security and comfort in ignorance and 'purity' from a very early age, consequently reflecting that in their comedy (especially during a time of nervousness and anticipation). The merits of the picture weren't questioned because of that same ignorance; same cause, two observed actions.

This incident is related to, but clearly distinct, from the football race-based heckling which is moreso the average bloke rationalizing his dislike of an opponent with racism because he can't think of anything more creative and consequently expressing his racist views because his own racism tells him that its acceptable. Those hooligans probably don't hate black people but they certainly don't mind adding their own negative judgements, based on club loyalty and whatnot, to an already-lurking racial prejudice .

I guess I don't feel as angry as I did when I saw this, like there is something we can do in the world to get rid of this; now I'm just sad this all roots in cognitive and humanistic failures and wont' stop any time soon...

You all should remember that nobody ever thinks quite like you do, when approaching situations like these. Become another person for a moment...

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

I don't think this classifies as racism to a lot of people who live in countries that lack ethnic diversity, just to mention that point. Most of us interact with people on a daily basis of a different ethnicity and value their character over their outside appearance, so we are most offended when there seems to be a judgement made on meaningless-to-us physical appearance. Chinese people are foreign, different, and obscure to the Spanish; nobody brought up the racist overtones and being offensive to Chinese because the half-way around the world Chinese are not quite 'real' people to these athletes. I believe the picture was a result of certain Spanish people subconsciously finding security and comfort in ignorance and 'purity' from a very early age, consequently reflecting that in their comedy (especially during a time of nervousness and anticipation). The merits of the picture weren't questioned because of that same ignorance; same cause, two observed actions.

I agree that the underlying cause here is most likely ignorance, and that the photos don't necessarily mean that the people in them are racists. But I also think that the photos themselves can be accurately labeled as racist in that they portray an action that's sole purpose is meant to disparage a group of people based only on their physical appearance. A good analogy would be like a 3 year old unexpectedly using the "n" word - they're just parroting the word without any understanding of the connotations it raises, so the kid's not racist, but the word still is.

But where the problem really lies for me is that it's very hard to understand how the Spanish (and Argentinians) can be so glaringly ignorant in our ever-shrinking world. Or think of it this way - my analogy, by necessity, needed to use a 3 year old in order to convey the level of ignorance that's on display here, despite the fact that we're talking about young adults. I mean for example, when I read the news online as many younger people do, I'm reading articles from around the world, with varying perspectives and concepts that just a couple decades ago, would've been beyond my reach and/or understanding. And the people on these teams are of course part of the younger generation, and have even been competing internationally for a while. Don't they have internet access, or any communications with people outside of their own culture that might clue them in to the fact that painting themselves up in black-face, or making monkey sounds at black players, or stretching their eyes like this is hurtful to the people on the receiving end? Are Spain and Argentina really in that much of an isolated bubble?

So if it's purely ignorance that's behind this, then it's absolutely stunning, almost willful ignorance of the highest order.

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

This incident is related to, but clearly distinct, from the football race-based heckling which is moreso the average bloke rationalizing his dislike of an opponent with racism because he can't think of anything more creative and consequently expressing his racist views because his own racism tells him that its acceptable. Those hooligans probably don't hate black people but they certainly don't mind adding their own negative judgements, based on club loyalty and whatnot, to an already-lurking racial prejudice.

I have no confidence that I understand the full reasons behind these photos, so I don't know how to compare past instances of racist behavior from Latin countries to what's happening right now.

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

You all should remember that nobody ever thinks quite like you do, when approaching situations like these. Become another person for a moment...

I am. I'm thinking of Asian people, like my wife who's of Korean descent, who have had to be on the receiving end of stretched-eye gestures and taunts of "ching chong ching" all her life, up to and including now. As I said earlier, the photos may be born of ignorance, but does that in any way justify or excuse them? I'm not so sure it does in today's world.

[IsiliRunite]

What I'm trying to say is...

They don't change or don't strive toward being more aware because it doesn't hurt them not to be; that is why most of the athletes didn't think anything of the pictures. American racists at least know they are racist. Like I said, this is an innate cultural tradition of ignorance through purity and has no reason to be shaken up. Its just there, and there's no reason to change it because it doesn't rear its ugly head to negatively affect the nation seriously or often enough. Not very many people within Spain can relate to being on the receiving end of racism, and ethnic Spaniards from Spain are consequently more likely to present something we deem as "racist" without the intent to offend. If they had a t-shirt that said "Chinos son maricon" that would be racism by our most common definition. Deliberate, offensive and most of all self-aware.

Its not ignorance like michael jackson would say, its ignorance as in "cluelessness". If racism/cluelessness was tearing the country apart or negatively affecting the country in any obvious way, they'd work towards getting rid of it. Most Spaniards don't walk around convincing each other about how superior they are in the way a lot of "racists" that we know tend to do, although I'm sure SOME are total fucking bigots, but it just happens because they are human beings who have not been been made aware of a more civilized approach to ensuring that all human beings are held in a high regard at all time. I'm sure Spaniards are racist from day to day in various amounts on a individual by individual basis. Racism is based on cognitive laziness and a bias of familiarity on the individual level. But on the Spanish societal level; This offensive photo is an attempted joke, and not an insult. Sometimes when we make jokes, we have to restrain ourselves because we know that what we are going to say is offensive; that filter does not exist in these people's minds with respect to ethnicity. There is no sensitivity because there is no awareness of how respect for all ethnicities is or is not demonstrated and the negative things that arise when that respect is absent. This photo is not racist in the most common use of the term because the Spaniards do NOT understand that this image represents making a joke out of the physical appearance of an ethnicity, which is itself disrespectful. Literally. Its THAT bad. This is an offensive, but not deliberate or intentional jab towards ethnicities. If you're gonna call it racism, at least add an adjective on it for the sake of humanity....

This is more of an expression of ethnic anti-harmony than expressing the illusion of racial superiority etc. I only decided to post because I was annoyed at the unprecise language that was just being repeated over and over again without much contextual thinking going on. I will agree; it is absolutely stunning and thoroughly disappointing. If there is anything I try to do as a human being, it is being aware of that which I do to violate or not facilitate the feelings, thoughts, and emotions of other people. Apparently that's not a priority to a lot of people.

What I mean by become another person is to put yourselves in the shoes of spaniards, and how it is so easy to do such things and not feel guilty for it. You know, detectives put themselves in the mind of criminals all the time.

I am really confident about all that...SO STEP TO ME AND GET WRECKED MOTHERFUCKERS. Just kidding, I was just trying to clarify because I don't think you got all of it the first time.

Want another example of this SAME clueslessness?

That is more offensive to me, personally.

[dubman]

wait are we talking about spain or the internet.

just kidding, though i do agree with isili to a startling extent. everything about this is hilariously awkward because it's just so damn clueless. and the fall-out is complete confusion on their end. it's like they're not sure if they're being picked on by the media for some reason they dont know so they just pout about it, convinced it's not what people say it is.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

What I'm trying to say is...

I do understand what you're saying and agree overall. I'm basically just adding my own personal opinion that I find this level of ignorance to be inexcusable in today's global society.

I think the only idea I would slightly challenge in what you wrote is that, multiple times, I've seen Spanish people get extremely offended here in the States if someone mistook them for Mexican, and they've done it in an alarmingly superior way ("alarming" because one of them is a friend of mine, and I didn't expect it ). So I'm not certain that it's quite as motivated by innocent ignorance as you were saying, but it is clearly rooted in ignorance.

Honestly, I'm still hoping Sanblaster will follow up with his thoughts so that I can get a little more understanding from someone who might have more direct knowledge about the attitudes behind this.

[dubman]

yeah san wtf get back in here

[Troy McClure]

Cluelessness and doing something without thinking isn't only a Spaniard thing right now. The picture below is ESPN.com's front page headline for USA beating Argentina in the semi-finals. The headline was there until Friday, 4PM EDT. A bad choice of words to say the least. -Jason



The picture came from a poster via my favorite sports-blogging website, Deadspin. www.deadspin.com