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  #181  
Old 08-28-2017, 02:33 PM
pandamagic
river
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubman View Post
What Sherburne touches on about Kittens is what i almost started a separate thread about (and in fact it'd be fun to have a whole thread dedicated to individual tracks in some interesting/personal perspective way), but couldn't capably condense my nebulous vibes&thoughts on it enough to justify making a whole thread.

KITTENS.

it's a bit of a awkward bastard in 2017 isn't it? it used to be a head-floating bigtime highlight for me, but in the last decade or so a bad notion started creeping up, that it might but be... extraordinarily cheeseball. and not in the "all in good fun" kind.
individually, there's nothing wrong with earnestness, big statements, escalating synths, and the hard beat, but put together in this kind of package, it's the one on beaucoup fish that feels the most dated. if it's techno, it equates to a noxious, neverending fistpump. if it's underworld, it's pretty juvenile. if it's a stadium banger, it's almost cynical? what does this track do that Cherry Pie doesn't also indulge in with better results?
maybe it just all circles back to Sherburne's off-handed diagnosis: those fucking crash cymbals.
yup, this exactly. Kittens is emblematic of what began to turn me off about Underworld during the Beaucoup Fish years. (This also applies to Moaner as well, I guess, which gave me a headache both then and now.) I'd always loved the fine-tuned craftsmanship of the previous two albums, the sumptuous layers, the intricate percussion, the balancing act of being simultaneously moody and danceable. Even the "big" tracks like Cowgirl and the aforementioned Cherry Pie were smart and elegant in their own ways, never having to sacrifice detail for large scale impact. Kittens on the other hand, even though it wasn't entirely without precedent (Rowla for example), just seemed very . . . basic. It's moves were predictable, its intentions were obvious. I could appreciate that not everything they did needed to be an ornate, elaborate masterpiece, but did they really need to dispense with all their usual nuance? As dubman mentioned, Cherry Pie is just as massive sounding while still managing to be about 100 times more interesting. And it was only a b-side!

At least Cups was there to reassure me that the old Underworld I knew and loved still existed.
  #182  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:11 PM
dubman
BigColor&Excited4SoupMan
 
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Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
I know there's some people here who consider it indispensable so i want them to jump in too.

rowla is a good contrast because it's simple minded but (imo) sneaks up on your groove detection system and implies a lot more than it lays out. those implications get explored and overblown in endless rolls on the live version, but i digress.
if you stripped Kittens down and let those synths breathe on their own, what would that sound like? wouldnt it imply everything else that the track adds and bricks you upside the head with? if you brought a beat in, what would it be like at half time? i'm sure a lot of this was explored by R&K&D, but something feels muffed about this almost-classic in a very weird way.

Last edited by dubman; 08-28-2017 at 03:23 PM.
  #183  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:34 PM
khouri
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 578
Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
I love Kittens. But these criticisms are thoughtful. Can't really argue except to say "But i like it anyway."
  #184  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:56 PM
dubman
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Posts: 2,517
Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
does it all just click together and work for you, or is there something you think we're missing that makes it more complex than we give it credit for?

what is kittens
why is rez
how is banstyle
  #185  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:22 PM
khouri
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubman View Post
does it all just click together and work for you, or is there something you think we're missing that makes it more complex than we give it credit for?

what is kittens
why is rez
how is banstyle
On the surface level, the rhythms and sounds and all the accents, crashes and noises are just pure catnip to me (no pun intended). But I think Kittens tells a kind of story, in an abstract art kind of way. You begin with this almost evil sounding invasion of percussion punctuated with these sinister bass notes. They build and build ominously for half the track, but then the bright keyboard pads start to rise out of the noise and ultimate beat back the cacophony of drums. When the keyboard solos, it feels like the sun's come out. Then when the drums come back you've got this programmed vs. live thing going on, where Rick is obviously playing those keys around the drums.

It feels like a narrative to me.
  #186  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:57 PM
dubman
BigColor&Excited4SoupMan
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,517
Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
Quote:
Originally Posted by khouri View Post
On the surface level, the rhythms and sounds and all the accents, crashes and noises are just pure catnip to me (no pun intended). But I think Kittens tells a kind of story, in an abstract art kind of way. You begin with this almost evil sounding invasion of percussion punctuated with these sinister bass notes. They build and build ominously for half the track, but then the bright keyboard pads start to rise out of the noise and ultimate beat back the cacophony of drums. When the keyboard solos, it feels like the sun's come out. Then when the drums come back you've got this programmed vs. live thing going on, where Rick is obviously playing those keys around the drums.

It feels like a narrative to me.
what a graphic and novel perspective

i kid. i did usually imagine the track in the context of whatever game or show or comic i was consuming at the time, so i see where you're coming from with that. i guess after so much of that kind of history it all peels off over time and i'm left with a great big box containing a remaster made to stand all on its own.
  #187  
Old 08-28-2017, 08:48 PM
Troy McClure
I'm the Spoonman
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 615
Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lx_Nen View Post
I got a download code in mine!
Was your download code for all 4 CDs or just disc 1? What format can you download with the code?
  #188  
Old 08-28-2017, 08:50 PM
TheBang
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
Lx_Nen told me the download code was all 4 discs, in 16/44 WAV.
  #189  
Old 08-29-2017, 03:10 AM
philth
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Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
In relation to all the Kittens discussions going on, Darren Emerson once told me that Kittens was effectively "his track". Might go some way to explaining why it dated differently to the other tracks if it was developed more as a DJ friendly track. Just a thought.
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  #190  
Old 08-29-2017, 04:13 AM
purlieu
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Posts: 477
Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
I enjoy Kittens, but taking a moment and comparing it to Puppies (because, y'know, titles), I know which one feels more Underworld.
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