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  #1  
Old 05-17-2014, 06:40 PM
bryantm3
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challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
CDs, and less so cassettes, put a huge mark on recordmaking. before the late 80s, most albums had to fit in a vinyl format, ~25 minutes maximum for each side, and only two sides were available for most releases. occasionally, groups would release double albums, but these were 90-100 minutes, not the 70-80 minute range that most UW releases fall into.

if UW had to abide by these rules, the albums would completely change.

first of all, you couldn't have one "long" song following another— this means banstyle couldn't have followed juanita (unless juanita was the last song on side one, and banstyle was the first on side two).

some bands did have some albums that got close to 30 minutes for each side. but the maximum you could fit on one side without severe degredation is about 30 minutes, so if banstyle and juanita were on one side, there would have to be nothing else on that side, and the sound quality would be somewhat reduced.

secondly, the albums would all either have to be shorter or longer— dubnobasswithmyheadman, for example, was 72:53. it *was* printed on double vinyl, but in the pre-CD era, the record company most likely would not have allowed such a waste of extra space, since dubno could have easily fit on three sides without reducing sound quality.

so what they most likely would have requested is that the album either be shorter— around 45-55 minutes— or long enough to justify using two records— around 90-100 minutes.

your task is to rearrange the albums as if these standards applied.

for some bands, i actually find this really effective, because when CDs were first introduced, it often made bands fill up the extra space rather than having a really solid 45 minutes. a good example of this is the smashing pumpkins' siamese dream, which starts out pretty solid but becomes extremely tiring by the end of the record. had the album been around the 45 minute mark, it would have certainly been a better album.

on the other hand, longer albums often need a 'break' between the two halves. some underworld records, as enjoyable as they are, can get kind of long near the end. imagine underworld records as double records (or double CDs), with a good closer for each side, and a break period between the two records.

so create your 'vinyl version' of the album by creating either two or four sides with around ~25 minutes of music on each side. you will either have to add or cut songs.

good luck!

Last edited by bryantm3; 05-17-2014 at 06:42 PM.
  #2  
Old 05-17-2014, 07:54 PM
bas_I_am
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
http://www.discogs.com/Underworld-Du.../release/46613
http://www.discogs.com/Underworld-Se...release/211443
  #3  
Old 05-18-2014, 08:39 AM
holden
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
We get so used to the track order of records we know and love, such that rearranging them often can allow for reevaluation...you hear things you'd overlooked before, or in the case of "album bands" like UW, reassess tracks as singles rather than part of a mix or environ of the LP. In the case of the anthologies, I usually long for the tracks that are "supposed" to surround the singles. In cases like the promo DAT of Dubno and the promo AHDO(ansum), hearing different mixes and different orders makes me appreciate the effort of tracking a record, as I think the actual release is better, though still....interesting ideas that are fun to explore. Shuffling can be fun.
As a fan of continuous mixes and somewhat thematic albums, I like CDs in that it all flows and there's room to develop, whereas flipping a cassette or vinyl breaks that flow. I guess the artist can use the breaks to their advantage if the music warrants a transition, but that length restriction is a bummer.
About the quality over quantity bit...yeah, a tight and wellvcrafted short album can be great for a lot of bands ( the pumpkins example is appropriate because they always dealt in excess... Not every demo or outtake needs released, Billy!) But when I know a band such as Underworld is capable of lengthy quality compositions, a shorter record seems like a rip-off or a lack of ideas. Plenty of times I've bought an "LP" CD and found it was less than 30 minutes in length...full price didn't seem fair!
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2014, 08:12 PM
negative1
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
those are pre-existing.

he said, in an era before these would be made.

try making them 2 sided records, time of 45 minutes.

i think basically all the longer songs would be replaced
with radio edits or unique edits.


later
-1
  #5  
Old 05-20-2014, 11:34 AM
stimpee
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by holden
As a fan of continuous mixes and somewhat thematic albums, I like CDs in that it all flows and there's room to develop, whereas flipping a cassette or vinyl breaks that flow. I guess the artist can use the breaks to their advantage if the music warrants a transition, but that length restriction is a bummer.
I'm not sure that Underworld are really thinking of track durations when making the running order. They just make it a double album. Which is what they did at the time. You fit what you can on one side.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2014, 10:20 PM
bryantm3
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
i've found that if you rearrange the tracks on beaucoup fish, use all the 'long mixes' and add 'please help me', it makes it actually a bit easier to swallow as a release since it has a break in the middle. my problem is where to fit in 'please help me'; i feel like it definitely fits somewhere around winjer and skym, but i'm not sure.

it also gives it a flow that is somewhat lost on the CD version, where you get a chill out on side 2, and then you get a new energy beginning on side C with bruce lee.

side A:
cups
push upstairs (long)
jumbo (long)

side B:
shudder
king of snake
winjer
skym

-------------

side C:

bruce lee
kittens
push downstairs

side D:

something like a mama
moaner (long)
  #7  
Old 05-22-2014, 05:50 PM
holden
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Re: challenge: what if the UW albums were released before CDs and cassettes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpee View Post
I'm not sure that Underworld are really thinking of track durations when making the running order. They just make it a double album. Which is what they did at the time. You fit what you can on one side.
You're probably right. I was talking in general, about the advantages of an 80 minute CD format, not UW. Other than a few tracks here and there that are mixed (and the RiverRun series, digital and <30 mins, so not really an issue in discussions of album sides), they usually have discrete breaks/fades to songs and can be sequenced however the time allows it.

However, i seem to recall from the Interview disc from the Beaucoup Fish era (the white label cd that came with the terrible Emerson dj mix!) that the boys struggled mightily with the BF track order (as well as the name).
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