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  #171  
Old 06-18-2010, 03:28 PM
//\/\/
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub View Post
what was the issue with the golden goal? why didn't it work?
it just didn't feel satisfactory for football. penalties, however nerve-racking, at least reduce the game to its essence ie kick the ball into the goal.

replays? again - it's about the world cup being intrisically the same game that my son plays in his sunday league - controlled and decided by the same set of officials...

as cured knows - 'it all evens out'
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  #172  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:17 PM
34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by //\/\/ View Post
see earlier post re. 'life' - if you only get involved every 4 years, you can't see (or, more importantly, feel) the balance sheet clearly...

and i don't believe it's the reffing that you don't get - isn't it more the fact that there's not dozens of points being scored?

and for instant replays - again, see what i put about world cup and my son's team - the game is largely the same simple thing at any level, on any pitch. that's what makes it globally far more important, successful and popular globally than the XXX games you mention.
What do you mean I don't get the dozens of points being scored? Ohh I get it lol americans right?

Also, the whole "game is played the same at every level" thing is ridiculous...how can that be a good thing? Are you really arguing that soccer is a better sport because the officiating is done by people who are barely qualified to ref peewee soccer? Do you think the reason baseball or football hasn't caught on overseas is because there's instant replay? You sure it has nothing to do with tradition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cured View Post
Back to the US: we can cry and whine about getting jobbed by the refs but giving up those two goals so easily has those types of consequences. As far as officiating, it is surprising that in the showcase tournament, they're essentially using training referees when there are plenty of quality officials out there. Not to say this happened in any way but what's to stop a ref who knows he's only going to officiate one or two matches from taking a few coin to skew the result of one group match? When you don't go with proven commodities, all sorts of things can happen.
That's not an excuse!! Are you saying the second half shouldn't matter? Yes USA could have played better but they still deserved the win!
  #173  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:28 PM
cured
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j View Post
That's not an excuse!! Are you saying the second half shouldn't matter? Yes USA could have played better but they still deserved the win!
What I was saying was the US could have avoided letting this come down to a bad ref by playing a little defense and not giving up two first half goals. That first goal, while a nice shot, shouldn't have happened. They gave the shooter way too much room to line up his shot.

It's all academic if the US wins against Algeria, anyway. We'd have to celebrate quickly because we'd likely have a date with zee Germanz.
  #174  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:29 PM
BrotherLovesDub
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Yeah, Ian's arguments are complete 'rubbish', to use the parlance of his superior countrymen. The game is worse for not having instant replay available. If a team wins any game they shouldn't have won because of a poor call by the official, the game loses it's credibility. I like how the NFL has limited challenges and put automatic reply review in play. I also think tennis has benefitted from instant replay. Baseball is starting to use it on certain plays too and that has ensured that the correct call is made. None of this fantasy fulfillment about tradition. It's about getting the calls right when the game is on the line.

Of course, it sounds like English football fans are content to tie and not at all concerned about the correct call being made.
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  #175  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Dunwho
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by potatobroth View Post

And Mali? Are you serious?
I am not liking the way people are so quick to presume a referee would be less proficient because he is from Mali. All the referees have reached a certain level of ability at their job, they know the rules and do the best they can in the unique situation that is presented at every match.

They are only human, and just like players they can have bad days, even the "best" referees!

In fact the "best" are often just the least controversial who have pissed off the least amount of people.


I think the best way to approach a bad call like what happened today against the USA is to accept that nothing you can do will change anything, the past is the past... but what you can do is use it to create that unique rivalry and desire to "put things right" that makes football a proper experience for so many people.

To really understand you have to invest yourself in the game, follow a team for a season... for a lifetime... with your parents... grandparents... family... son... - also following a team that is a bitter rival to those family members favourite team is good fun too....

...and then... after years of watching players grow and develop... have marriage breakdowns and drink driving offences... broken legs and arms... disappointing music careers and embaresing adverts... that player breaks through and beats a ragged offside trap at the world cup finals.. your off your seat with your heart in your mouth... you think about all the times he has skipped so easily past the goalkeeper and slotted it in the back of the net like a piece of cake on a cold winter's Saturday morning.... you grab the arm of the closest family member - united by an indescribable pride for your common nationality - for fear of falling over in excitement.....



..... and the ref fucks up.


.... shit happens.. we'll do it next time.



I have taken my utter disgust at Henry's handball against us (Ireland) in the playoffs and have turned it into a competitive desire to see them lose at all costs... but i have accepted that there is nothing i can do about it and nobody wants to hear me moan about it.

Shit happens.... move on....

Perhaps MLB, NFL, NBA etc are over controlled and slaves to television evidence... and there is a lot of benefits for TV evidence, but football has been preserved because it is essentially the same game whether you are playing with your mates with jumper goalposts... or in the Champions League Final.
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  #176  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:55 PM
Dunwho
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j View Post
Also, the whole "game is played the same at every level" thing is ridiculous...how can that be a good thing? Are you really arguing that soccer is a better sport because the officiating is done by people who are barely qualified to ref peewee soccer? Do you think the reason baseball or football hasn't caught on overseas is because there's instant replay? You sure it has nothing to do with tradition?
Oh and the reason why football has been so popular around the world is because the essence of the game is so easily achieved with the most simple of items. If you had grown up in a country outside of North America you would nearly definitely have spent a few hours a day in the school yard kicking a flattened can around with your friends - goals made out of jumpers or traffic cones..

-you would have had that all too familiar argument with your friends "THAT WAS OVER!!!!" - "NO IT WASNT IT WAS WELL UNDER THE BAR YOUR JUST REAL SMALL!!!" - and after everyone has had a good shout, the majority rules and the defeated swallow their pride and use that anger either in a dodgy tackle, or score a more legitimate goal and rub it in their friends faces!!

Because it is so simple to play football it thrives in lower class societies that have less money, and because the majority of earth population is in poverty it thrives! Basketball? Tennis? American Football... not so easy.


And just to get things straight!
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  #177  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:57 PM
BrotherLovesDub
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunwho View Post
but football has been preserved because it is essentially the same game whether you are playing with your mates with jumper goalposts... or in the Champions League Final.
Wow, you guys really think Football is superior because a Champions League game where millions of pounds/dollars/duckets are at stake is indistinguishable from a pickup game on the weekend with your overweight, talentless mates? Seriously? These games actually mean something. Peoples careers, livelihoods, futures are at stake. There is a lot of money on the line. I'm baffled at the attitudes of the English/Scottish/Irish fans. You like games that end in a tie because at least you get a point and you think your beloved football is superior because an actual meaningful match is not officiated any differently than a casual game with friends. I think we're getting to the heart of why Americans are hesitant to embrace soccer. We actually play our sports to win. We actually want the right call to be made, regardless of whether our amateur sports have replays. We actually care about a game deciding goal being properly called. In the British Isles, close is good enough.
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  #178  
Old 06-18-2010, 05:22 PM
BrotherLovesDub
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
btw, totally agree w/r/t the names of the sports. Football should be football and American Football should be Handegg or at least something else entirely.
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  #179  
Old 06-18-2010, 06:26 PM
Jason Roth
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
That call hasn't gotten any better with age.
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  #180  
Old 06-18-2010, 07:02 PM
34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunwho View Post
Oh and the reason why football has been so popular around the world is because the essence of the game is so easily achieved with the most simple of items. If you had grown up in a country outside of North America you would nearly definitely have spent a few hours a day in the school yard kicking a flattened can around with your friends - goals made out of jumpers or traffic cones..

-you would have had that all too familiar argument with your friends "THAT WAS OVER!!!!" - "NO IT WASNT IT WAS WELL UNDER THE BAR YOUR JUST REAL SMALL!!!" - and after everyone has had a good shout, the majority rules and the defeated swallow their pride and use that anger either in a dodgy tackle, or score a more legitimate goal and rub it in their friends faces!!

Because it is so simple to play football it thrives in lower class societies that have less money, and because the majority of earth population is in poverty it thrives! Basketball? Tennis? American Football... not so easy.


And just to get things straight!

Ummm isn't American football easier? You don't even need the cones...

It wasn't called 'football' for nothing. Back when it was invented most sports were played on horses. For football you used your feet. It's just a name. In rugby, making it to the end zone is called a 'try' even though you get points just for that...but we never use that as an excuse to say "rugby sucks"
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