what do y'all think? (the atheism thread)

[bryantm3]

i had a discussion with someone regarding religion on a social network that ended in them deleting me off their list— i'm not sure if i was harsh or mean or something, but i decided to post it here to see what y'all think. tell me if you think i was disrespectful or if you agree. here we go.

OP posted this picture:



my reply:
jeez. more inaccurate and inflammatory atheist evangelism.

another person:
Christianity is mostly inaccuracy and inflammatory evangelism anyways. I'm sure a little joking back wouldn't be an injustice.

me:
i agree on your first note. but to me the whole 'religion is like a penis, it's great that you have one but don't shove it down my throat' applies to atheists, too.

original poster:

Atheists are different from Christians in that they're not looking to improve some imaginary, invented afterlife, but see that religion is aiding in the destruction of our world. And I firmly defend that posting a picture on [social network] is in no way attempting to change someone's mind. You think I think I could "save" a Christian? I'd sooner believe I could strike a fire under water. I'm appealing to the humorous side of people who already believe this.

In all reality, the belief is incredibly laughable.


me:

the scientific facts in the image aren't correct— there weren't hairy cavemen 6000 years ago, the human species was probably very similar to what we are now. it seems to me that whoever made the image has more of a problem with the actual belief system itself rather than how that belief system relates to scientific fact considering they couldn't even get their own dogma correct.

i think it's incredibly laughable that any one person thinks that they have a monopoly on the truth, whether they are a christian, atheist, muslim, jew, etc.


OP:

Just going based on amount of evidence. Some, if little, versus absolutley none. There isn`t a g-d. How we got here is debatable, but we weren`t created. Yes, the image is off by a tiny, tiny bit of time in cosmic terms, but the sentiment it expresses is deniable, but in fact true. G-d exists only in the minds of man.

Unlike some, I come to the internet looking to agree with people rather than argue. I enjoy knowing other people think the way I do. I don`t give a flying fuck if you`re mormon, muslim, or pastafarian. I converse with atheists, because I like to expand and alter my views. I don`t want to convert or feel superior or attack. And if you try to find fault with that, you will fall short, and will also get no reply, so please don`t try.

I think perhaps you`re a bit bored and just attempting to stir up trouble. Only those who question themselves would really respond to that negatively.


me:

i don't have a problem with what you believe. just as i'm sick of fundamentalist christians trying to convert me, and posters like "you KNOW there's a g-d" and whatnot, i'm sick of atheists doing the same thing. it's uncanny how alike many atheists (not all, but many) evangelize in nearly the same way as christians— i think it derives from the US being a mostly christian society. the way that westerners have a religion isn't the same as others around the world. if you're an atheist in the united states i don't think it has the same impact as if you were an atheist in say, turkey.

because in the united states there's a little slot in everyone's lives that they call their religion, and they pack all their stuff there and it mostly doesn't affect other parts of their lives, but they're convinced that they have to tell everyone about it and proudly proclaim "I AM A CHRISTIAN" even though in many cases their actions don't reflect their religiosity. many american atheists are much the same, they have a dogma and feel the need to share it and spread it around like the christians they once were (or are influenced by in US society).

my point is, american atheism is mostly a rejection of christian beliefs and customs rather than a rejection of G-d himself. a lot of atheists (and christians also) don't really understand that religions across the world don't work the same as religion in the united states, this is why many religions in the US have adapted to more reflect the place that christianity takes in society (see reform judiasm and many muslims in the US). religion in other parts of the world and even in some places here in the US, plays a different role. it's an interweaving mesh that connects to every section of your life and goes to the core of who you are— not limiting your actions but changing the way you look at the world. christianity doesn't really have that.

i guess my point overall is that just because you have rejected christianity, don't think that you have a hold on the truth better than anyone else or that you've found the answer. thinking you have all the answers is basically an admittance of naïvety— i don't condemn your non-belief in G-d. but i think stating it like "THERE IS NO G-D AND THERE NEVER WILL BE" is a bit quick on the draw. none of us have all the answers and i think it's foolish to pretend that any of us do.


OP:

Well you're completely wrong. It's a rejection of all beliefs. It's just mostly centered around Christianity because that's the society a) you are in and b) we are in.

You're being ignorant, actually, but I'm not going to argue. Frankly, I hardly know you, and I don't really like the conversations we've had, so I'm just going to take you off my friends list. Not because you're "arguing" with my beliefs, but because I've seen you post things that have really made me wonder about your character. Bye.

[froopy seal]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i guess my point overall is that just because you have rejected christianity, don't think that you have a hold on the truth better than anyone else or that you've found the answer. thinking you have all the answers is basically an admittance of naïvety— i don't condemn your non-belief in G-d. but i think stating it like "THERE IS NO G-D AND THERE NEVER WILL BE" is a bit quick on the draw. none of us have all the answers and i think it's foolish to pretend that any of us do.

I see myself as an agnostic, and, shamefully, believe (ha!) to be superior to religious people as regards the natural sciences - not superior in terms of happiness, or quality of living, or "being human", though.

Quite frankly, I don't see why you two had this argument at all. The OP seems a little sensitive to criticism. Also, his result that you're supposed to be of doubtful character might be premature. Then again, everybody may decide about their company for themselves.

My conclusion: It's teh Interwebs, so forget the episode and move on.

[stimpee]

I think the OP was just trying to be funny in the first place. Questioning the picture because of inaccuracies isnt really relevant to the point. I dont think the original intention of the OP was atheist evangelism but rather humour. Unfortunately it got a bit out of control. As an atheist myself, i find its fairly pointless to get into these arguments, as the atheist evidence is out there for all to see. I'd rather point someone to a nice book someone like Dr Steve Jones (genetics/anthropology) and everyone knows about Richard Dawkins. I'd say get over it. Posting a pic like that is not really a big deal and you both got the handbags out pretty quickly.

[Deckard]

Posting potentially provocative stuff on platforms that aren't mutually agreed invitations for debate is always going to be asking for trouble.
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Forums on the other hand...



( )

No you weren't disrespectful. The purpose of posting the pic was probably more humour than evangelizing, but still he could have handled the criticism better. Anyway it's the social web. You didn't really know each other, so don't sweat it. It's why I've so far avoided Facebook. (That, and the fact that I have no friends)

[Sarcasmo]

I think that starting a conversation about religion on the interwebs is unwise, unless you really know your audience, and even then, it should never be used to proselytize. In either direction, let me make that clear. I think we should be able to accept that religion can have a very scary effect on people, but that it largely has to do with whomever is giving orders. For my own part, I don't get into any kind of semantic or personal arguments about my faith, because I understand how counterintuitive a lot of what I accept as truth may seem to others, and that's fine. It's not my job to convert people. It's my job to show love and compassion and self-sacrifice, and be an example of what I believe.

I don't think you did anything wrong, but it should have been obvious from the get-go that the OP was trolling.

[bryantm3]

well i actually did know the person, albeit not very well. from high school (i'm 20).

the OP wasn't trolling, i knew this person a little in HS and knew they were an atheist and everyone so far had been clicking like to show approval. it was on facebook, but i'm trying to be as non-specific as possible to protect their ID.

we have a couple of friends in common, i just hope they don't see that and somehow side with them

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Deckard

this picture is interesting, now I see the point of the "walking on water" story
but who is the story for? the conventional logic people or the religious?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Andrea

this picture is interesting, now I see the point of the "walking on water" story
but who is the story for? the conventional logic people or the religious?

Assuming you mean the walking on water story, the 'or' is a bit misleading. The story is obviously for the religious - but clearly there are plenty of believers who take a more conventional logic (ie. less literalist) approach to biblical stories than others, which is probably why I didn't interpret the picture as being about biblical literalism. Personally I took it as an atheist-centric reference to the famous burden of proof argument for God's existence.

Just to be clear, posting it was no more than a little good-humoured mischief making on my part. True, I consider the logic of the religious person deeply muddled when it comes to the issue of belief in God or gods (I'm sure plenty think mine equally muddled) - but it would be a far stretch for me to conclude from it that religious people reject logic in any other area of their life.

[Sarcasmo]

Originally Posted by Deckard

...but it would be a far stretch for me to conclude from it that religious people reject logic in any other area of their life.

And I would hope that anybody, regardless of what they choose to place their faith in, understands that their faith is not a tool by which they elevate themselves above other people. In fact, the opposite is the truth.

[stimpee]