is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

then why is it okay to murc a little baby?!?!

Looks like you need to start from the top once again Cacophony....

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

No you don't Ma.

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

Because poor, garbage people don't want their accidental children to be used by intellectual, rich people to be killed in an accidental war they say god told them to start.

Or something.

[IsiliRunite]

Or, more reasonably, address the inconsistencies in what she is saying.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

then why is it okay to murc a little baby?!?!

how is that a response to my comment. you said pro-choicers think a baby is just an extension of the female form.

sorry, brotherman. i grew two babies. i can say unapologetically that you've got no clue what that's like and you can only speculate wildly about how women regard the lives that grow inside of them. at no point were either of those babies extensions of my body. that's what you're so totally wrong about. no, pro-choicers don't feel a baby grow inside of them and think "meh, whatever."

i teetered on the edge of liver failure for those babies and if given the choice i would have died so they could be born. and yet somehow i still believe the government has no right to hold my health hostage and i believe women should have the choice to control their own bodies.

it's a quandry but i don't expect you to understand. frankly you're never going to be able to experience the depth of emotion, you're going to have to speculate from afar and navelgaze over the philosophy of something that you will never ever ever be at risk for.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

Looks like you need to start from the top once again Cacophony....

yeah maybe i'm patting myself on the back but i think i've been rather eloquent and clear about my points. instead of getting actual responses to the scenarios i'm offering i'm getting a lot of "but people shouldn't have sex!" and "don't murder babies!"

okay. if you guys don't want to have a conversation about it that's fine. it's a lot easier to just stick to your position and ignore the complicated reality of the situation than to really ponder what this legislation would do to real people's lives.

[IsiliRunite]

so you think a fetus is a unique human being (with civil liberties?) but also believe that ending the life of said fetus is only taking control of your own health?

you're gonna have to resolve that contradiction before i bother typing anything else. stop patting yourself on the back... you're typing a whole lot of nonsense disguised as contextual nuances.

'I got this great idea to start killing non-consenting organ matches so more people can be healthy. thoughts? Don't dare judge me, there are a bunch of complications and stuff.. you'll never understand it.'

[cacophony]

don't put words in my mouth.

and also try not being an asshole about it. i've been very civil about this discussion and you've done nothing but respond with illogical platitudes. snap out of it and get your shit together and participate in an adult discussion.

[IsiliRunite]

I'll take that as a "No."

[Sean]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

so you think a fetus is a unique human being (with civil liberties?) but also believe that ending the life of said fetus is only taking control of your own health?

Based on what I've read, this is an overly-simplified boiling down of what Cacophony's written to the point that it's a complete misrepresentation.

Frankly, despite being pro-choice myself, I've always had questions about people who say abortion is about a woman's right to control her own body for the same reason some here have pointed out. I always thought, "but this issue is about a fetus - a separate but dependent living entity". Of course the woman's body was obviously involved, but the "life" in question was that of the baby's. But after reading the detailed and thoughtful posts from Cacophony on this specific question here, I finally feel a better sense of understanding about it. You just don't hear about all the affects that childbirth can have on a woman's body as outlined in this thread very often. It seems that maybe you either haven't read, or haven't taken the time to really absorb the information that's been shared here IsiliRunite, and I for one have found it to be extremely enlightening.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

Based on what I've read, this is an overly-simplified boiling down of what Cacophony's written to the point that it's a complete misrepresentation.

which is why i'm done with the conversation. if he's not even going to make a teeny effort to try to comprehend my point, which really means he's not reading anything i'm writing, then what's the point.

i get tired of investing effort into debates when people are too lazy to read and just keep parroting their point as though i'm on ignore.