election in iran

[myrrh]

Originally Posted by Sean

How is protesting a lesser form of terrorism? And isn't Iran already doing "whatever they want" to end the protesting - essentially through straight up terrorism against their own citizens? And isn't that exactly why the protesters are continuing to protest?

This may be, but it doesn't justify the likely vote tampering that took place. The protesters have undeniable justification in speaking out against what's happened and what is happening now.

Protesting is a lesser form of terrorism in the fact that the purpose of terrorism is to displace the everyday life of normal civilians. So when things have to shut down due to a protest taking place, it is a lesser form of terrorism. For example, if a man has a deli on a street where there just happens to be a protest on today, and no one can come to his deli, and he loses all his business that day, then in effect those protesters were disrupting the normal flow of daily society, and this, to me, is a lesser form of terrorism.

And the protesters may have justification in speaking out against what is happening, but the reality is it wouldn't be happening, if they weren't protesting.

[//\/\/]

that's just bullshit. using the word 'terrorism' and watering it down with 'lesser form' detracts from terrorism itself. by calling everybody some sort of terrorist, you undermine the negative essence of the association. in that sense, you're as bad as any number of right-wingers who slap the label on anybody who opposes them as it's a hard word to argue against. it's intellectual dishonesty of the highest order.

[Deckard]

Well said //\/\/

[cured]

Michael Jackson died to a shot of Demerol, it seems. Of course it deserves front page billing, it hits all the major news elements in one fell swoop, plus he happened to be the biggest thing in the 1980s.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

He kinda, like, a lessor form of terrorism too:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/m...net/index.html

[Sean]

Originally Posted by myrrh

Protesting is a lesser form of terrorism in the fact that the purpose of terrorism is to displace the everyday life of normal civilians. So when things have to shut down due to a protest taking place, it is a lesser form of terrorism. For example, if a man has a deli on a street where there just happens to be a protest on today, and no one can come to his deli, and he loses all his business that day, then in effect those protesters were disrupting the normal flow of daily society, and this, to me, is a lesser form of terrorism.

I've gotta say, I'm with Ian and Deckard on this. By your reasoning, the farmer's market that happens every Tuesday evening by my work that cuts off easy access to a few local restaurants would also qualify as a "lesser form of terrorism".

Originally Posted by myrrh

And the protesters may have justification in speaking out against what is happening, but the reality is it wouldn't be happening, if they weren't protesting.

This, I simply disagree with. Number one, none of this would be happening if the elections had been held in a way that didn't suggest such strong implications of vote tampering. That - not the protests - is what's at the root of the whole issue.

Number two, this wouldn't have become such an international point of contention if the Iranian government hadn't responded to the protests with such outrageous violence.

And third, I agree that the protesters are justified in speaking out, so in my opinion, they should have a forum available to them to voice their concerns. That forum has traditionally been through peaceful protests. Would you have people with justified issues be silenced and forced to just accept the situation as it is, with no avenue for attempting to affect change available to them?

[Sean]

Lots of updates in this article. Some excerpts:

Iranian authorities have barred journalists for international news organizations from reporting on the streets and ordered them to stay in their offices. This report is based on the accounts of witnesses reached in Iran and official statements carried on Iranian media.

A leading cleric demanded in a nationally broadcast sermon Friday that leaders of the unrest be punished harshly and said some are "worthy of execution."

The official Web site of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, his main tool of communicating with his supporters, was hacked Friday, leaving it blank

In Friday's central Muslim sermon at Tehran University, a senior cleric, Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami, called for harsh retribution for dissent. "Anybody who fights against the Islamic system or the leader of Islamic society, fight him until complete destruction,"

Khatami said those who disturbed the peace and destroyed public property were "at war with God," and said they should be "dealt with without mercy."

"In this unrest, Britons have behaved very mischievously and it is fair to add the slogan of down with England to slogan of down with USA," he said, as his remarks were interrupted by worshippers' chants of "Death to Israel."

In London, Dr. Arash Hejazi, who said he tried to save Soltan as the young woman bled to death, told the BBC she apparently was shot by a member of the Basij militia. Protesters spotted an armed member of the Basij militia on a motorcycle, and stopped and disarmed him, the doctor said. The man appeared to admit shooting Soltan, shouting "I didn't want to kill her," but the furious protesters confiscated his identity card and took photographs of him before letting him go, Hejazi said.

Khamenei has ordered a large security detail around Mousavi—ostensibly to protect him, but presumably also to restrict his movements. Authorities have also targeted those close to Mousavi.

At least 11 Mousavi campaign workers and 25 staffers on his newspaper have been detained since the election.

On Wednesday, 70 university professors were detained immediately after meeting with the opposition leader. All but four have been released. Those still in custody included Qorban Behzadiannejad, Mousavi's former campaign manager.


And this since we were talking about the review of complaints about the election earlier in this thread:

...authorities have repeatedly dismissed the opposition complaints. In remarks quoted on the official IRNA news agency on Friday, Abbas-Ali Kadkhodaei, a spokesman for the 12-member Guardian Council charged with vetting elections, said the panel had “almost finished reviewing defeated candidates’ election complaints,” which the council said earlier numbered in excess of 600.

“The reviews showed that the election was the healthiest since the revolution,” Mr. Kadkhodaei said. “There were no major violations in the election.”

Well if they say so, then surely it must be true....

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

http://ukinet.com/nyt-2005-04-04.htm

But you didn't hear about it from me.

& I'm not sayin' horny coked up MF is a nazi, but horny coked up MF sho' nuff got played by some of 'em.

[Sean]

It's certainly not over yet. Here's a new story out of Iran:

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Tens of thousands of government opponents packed Iran's main Islamic prayer service Friday, chanting "freedom, freedom" and other slogans as their top clerical backer Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani delivered a sermon bluntly criticizing the country's leadership over the crackdown on election protests.

Outside, police and pro-government Basiji militiamen fired tear gas and charged thousands of protesters who chanted "death to the dictator" and called on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to resign. Dozens were arrested, piled in trucks and taken away, witnesses said.

And here's the latest screed from Ahmadinejad:

Iranian leaders often refer to the United States and its allies as the "global arrogance."

"As soon as the new government is established, with power and authority, ten times more than before, it will enter the global scene and will bring down the global arrogance," he told a big crowd in the northeastern city of Mashhad.

"They should wait as a new wave of revolutionary thinking ... from the Iranian nation is on the way and we will not allow the arrogant (powers) to even have one night of good sleep," Ahmadinejad said, according to state broadcaster IRIB.

[Deckard]

Make of these what you will...

Iran appoints 'friend of Israel' to VP
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has appointed Esfandiar Rahim Mashaie to be the country's new first vice president. Mashaie a year ago was severely criticised by the country's hardliners and even rapped by supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei for saying Iran was a "friend of the Israeli people." He returned to the theme again in August, saying he had "no hostility against the Israeli people."

Israel prepares for what we all know is coming*
Two Israeli missile class warships have sailed through the Suez Canal ten days after a submarine capable of launching a nuclear missile strike, in preparation for a possible attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. "This is preparation that should be taken seriously. Israel is investing time in preparing itself for the complexity of an attack on Iran. These manoeuvres are a message to Iran that Israel will follow up on its threats," an Israeli defence official said.

(*Times website has been temperamental lately - try hitting refresh a few times if you get a 404 error)