is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?

[Future Proof]

Originally Posted by stimpee

I find the term pro-life to be very deceptive. everyone is pro life. everyone loves life. just depends on how far you want to go. they need a new term.

I think its sad now that when I think of pro-life I think of people who murder doctors. Hardly pro-life is it.

DINGDINGDINGDING tell him what he's won, Bob!

I love life and I love babies. To be honest, the thought of an abortion and the inherent irresponsibility that figures into the decision to get one in most cases turns my stomach. It's people making stupid decisions, and then following up their stupid decisions with a terrible solution to their problems, that's what most abortions end up being.

But of course, you have the isolated cases where a woman is assaulted and impregnated, and other rare exceptions. I had a friend in college that was raped while on vacation and became pregnant, and she went and got an abortion. And as you can imagine, my support for her and her situation was unwavering because of the absolute vileness of circumstances. To be pro-life politically would mean to usurp her choice to abort a pregnancy which was created out of evil means, and that's not an option as far as I'm concerned.

But on a more philosophical and sociological slant... it's kind of hard for me to be pro-life when I see case after case of the stupidest people popping out kid after kid. It's garbage genes coming together, and once the baby is born it's going to be garbage food, garbage education, garbage nurturing, all offered generally in garbage surroundings. So it's no surprise that once baby grows up they generally turn out to be a piece of garbage. And many of the checkpoints that the human race had to go through in centuries/millenniums past are now gone. Due to technology, medicine and other factors, the weak are now surviving along with the strong, and their crap genes are spreading and dumbing everyone down. And as much as I hate to say it, I believe that abortion is one way that the spreading of bad genetics is getting slowed down.

Sorry, I've just been on a big kick lately about de-evolution.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by Future Proof

But on a more philosophical and sociological slant... it's kind of hard for me to be pro-life when I see case after case of the stupidest people popping out kid after kid. It's garbage genes coming together, and once the baby is born it's going to be garbage food, garbage education, garbage nurturing, all offered generally in garbage surroundings. So it's no surprise that once baby grows up they generally turn out to be a piece of garbage. And many of the checkpoints that the human race had to go through in centuries/millenniums past are now gone. Due to technology, medicine and other factors, the weak are now surviving along with the strong, and their crap genes are spreading and dumbing everyone down. And as much as I hate to say it, I believe that abortion is one way that the spreading of bad genetics is getting slowed down.

Sorry, I've just been on a big kick lately about de-evolution.

But wait minute, it's the supposed intellectual, high-society people with alot of money that have been making decisions during the past decade that have fucked the country all the way close to hell. No?

I guess they just don't LOOK like garbage, huh?*

*Please refer to my song of the day.

[Future Proof]

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

But wait minute, it's the supposed intellectual, high-society people with alot of money that have been making decisions during the past decade that have fucked the country all the way close to hell. No?

I guess they just don't LOOK like garbage, huh?*

*Please refer to my song of the day.

I don't think that too much that has happened on Capital Hill, or in Visa's HQ, or the mortgage industry has swung too fiercely on how John Q. Public would benefit. Financially speaking the focus has been more on interest and opening new accounts, though it didn't seem to strike the mortgage sector that if they gave loans to people buying max house on min income that they would default entirely. Major credit cards also made the same mistake of giving people credit when they absolutely didn't deserve it, and gave them astronomical interest rates on top of it. But all they saw was what would happen when everyone paid on their interest, they didn't see people going belly-up.

These were bad decisions, based on an irresponsible level of greed and profiteering. I wouldn't equate bad decisions to low intelligence though. Not to mention, it doesn't really bother me much that banks were willing to go bonanza on subprime lending, what bothers me is that there were many uninformed consumers out there that thought that they were actually a good idea.

Industries that deal with credit being one example of the general fuckery of the state of the union in the past 10 years.

EDIT: I'm not following why this thread is about being pro-life and pro gay rights, aside from political affiliation in the more extreme cases. It would seem that these are 2 stances that are generally made independent of each other.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by Future Proof

I don't think that too much that has happened on Capital Hill, or in Visa's HQ, or the mortgage industry has swung too fiercely on how John Q. Public would benefit. Financially speaking the focus has been more on interest and opening new accounts, though it didn't seem to strike the mortgage sector that if they gave loans to people buying max house on min income that they would default entirely. Major credit cards also made the same mistake of giving people credit when they absolutely didn't deserve it, and gave them astronomical interest rates on top of it. But all they saw was what would happen when everyone paid on their interest, they didn't see people going belly-up.

These were bad decisions, based on an irresponsible level of greed and profiteering. I wouldn't equate bad decisions to low intelligence though. Not to mention, it doesn't really bother me much that banks were willing to go bonanza on subprime lending, what bothers me is that there were many uninformed consumers out there that thought that they were actually a good idea.

Industries that deal with credit being one example of the general fuckery of the state of the union in the past 10 years.

EDIT: I'm not following why this thread is about being pro-life and pro gay rights, aside from political affiliation in the more extreme cases. It would seem that these are 2 stances that are generally made independent of each other.

Umm, I wasn't referring to the economy, though it can still apply IMHO(this acronym now rocks).


Oh, and in regards to your edit. I think he's referring to that "i" word again. I think.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by stimpee

Well, i'm sorry that you think it necessary to start a thread, encourage discussion and then edit your original post until it just says "?". If you start a discussion, you should expect it to heat up a bit. Please don't feel as if you need to back down or run away just because everyone doesn't whole heartedly agree with you. Maybe they have rational and logical reasons for their beliefs, even if they are the opposite of yours. Keep em coming bryantm3

My original post was posted as I was running out the door and originally said something like fhwgads, so I thought a question mark was more appropriate. I'm definitely not backing down, but it's obvious Cacophony is not going to change her mind, and it's obvious I'm not going to change mine, and since we've both stated our points clearly, I don't think it's necessary to let it degrade to a point where feelings are hurt and people are upset— this is an internet forum, not capitol hill. I do appreciate your support, however.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Oh shit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31528426/ns/us_news-faith/

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

My original post was posted as I was running out the door and originally said something like fhwgads, so I thought a question mark was more appropriate. I'm definitely not backing down, but it's obvious Cacophony is not going to change her mind, and it's obvious I'm not going to change mine, and since we've both stated our points clearly, I don't think it's necessary to let it degrade to a point where feelings are hurt and people are upset— this is an internet forum, not capitol hill. I do appreciate your support, however.

Well then, we'll need fhwgads defined.

[Rog]

Originally Posted by Future Proof

DINGDINGDINGDING tell him what he's won, Bob!

I love life and I love babies. To be honest, the thought of an abortion and the inherent irresponsibility that figures into the decision to get one in most cases turns my stomach. It's people making stupid decisions, and then following up their stupid decisions with a terrible solution to their problems, that's what most abortions end up being.

But of course, you have the isolated cases where a woman is assaulted and impregnated, and other rare exceptions. I had a friend in college that was raped while on vacation and became pregnant, and she went and got an abortion. And as you can imagine, my support for her and her situation was unwavering because of the absolute vileness of circumstances. To be pro-life politically would mean to usurp her choice to abort a pregnancy which was created out of evil means, and that's not an option as far as I'm concerned.

But on a more philosophical and sociological slant... it's kind of hard for me to be pro-life when I see case after case of the stupidest people popping out kid after kid. It's garbage genes coming together, and once the baby is born it's going to be garbage food, garbage education, garbage nurturing, all offered generally in garbage surroundings. So it's no surprise that once baby grows up they generally turn out to be a piece of garbage. And many of the checkpoints that the human race had to go through in centuries/millenniums past are now gone. Due to technology, medicine and other factors, the weak are now surviving along with the strong, and their crap genes are spreading and dumbing everyone down. And as much as I hate to say it, I believe that abortion is one way that the spreading of bad genetics is getting slowed down.

Sorry, I've just been on a big kick lately about de-evolution.

heh! the thick will inherit the world and they're fuckin welcome to it!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Future Proof

DINGDINGDINGDING tell him what he's won, Bob!

I love life and I love babies. To be honest, the thought of an abortion and the inherent irresponsibility that figures into the decision to get one in most cases turns my stomach. It's people making stupid decisions, and then following up their stupid decisions with a terrible solution to their problems, that's what most abortions end up being.

But of course, you have the isolated cases where a woman is assaulted and impregnated, and other rare exceptions. I had a friend in college that was raped while on vacation and became pregnant, and she went and got an abortion. And as you can imagine, my support for her and her situation was unwavering because of the absolute vileness of circumstances. To be pro-life politically would mean to usurp her choice to abort a pregnancy which was created out of evil means, and that's not an option as far as I'm concerned.

But on a more philosophical and sociological slant... it's kind of hard for me to be pro-life when I see case after case of the stupidest people popping out kid after kid. It's garbage genes coming together, and once the baby is born it's going to be garbage food, garbage education, garbage nurturing, all offered generally in garbage surroundings. So it's no surprise that once baby grows up they generally turn out to be a piece of garbage. And many of the checkpoints that the human race had to go through in centuries/millenniums past are now gone. Due to technology, medicine and other factors, the weak are now surviving along with the strong, and their crap genes are spreading and dumbing everyone down. And as much as I hate to say it, I believe that abortion is one way that the spreading of bad genetics is getting slowed down.

Sorry, I've just been on a big kick lately about de-evolution.

You and me both. One of the reasons I love the movie "Idiocracy".

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

In this case, I believe our character is going to die directly from pregnancy, which makes abortion slightly more reasoned in this case.

medical experts would disagree with you. our character's life was never at risk for dying until 33 1/2 weeks, when suddenly her health took an unfortunate turn. at that point the babies were viable.

your statement would actually result in more unnecessary abortions, not fewer, because if you looked at the hypertension at 20 weeks and determined that might lead to the life threatening condition later, you'd end up aborting two very viable babies.

the point is, you can't predict every complication. and because you can't screen or predict every complication unforseen medical expenses will result, and long term (possibly life-long) health consequences may result for both mom and baby. how do "pro-lifers" intend to deal with these circumstances in the real world? no "pro-lifer" has ever been able to adequately address this issue.

Originally Posted by IsiliRunite

If they're too poor to take care of the babies they might create by fornicating, they shouldn't be fornicating.

oh well that's a realistic expectation. if human beings are good at anything, it's resisting sex.

wishing for an inhuman world doesn't solve the human problem.

are you a virgin?