U.S. Presidential Election 2008

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by cacophony

it speaks volumes about a man when he speaks in such a diminishing way to a woman. i've got a serious problem with this.

Sorry I completely disagree. What a bunch of stuff over nothing! I have an unfortunate habit of calling people "love", "darling" or "sweetie", whether they are male or female, gay, hetero or transexual in casual chat (Eddy from AbFab, eat yer heart out ). It is nothing to do with diminishing them in any way, but simply a linguistic tick.

Sometimes it can slip out when, if I had thought about it better, I would have realised that it was a tad over-familiar or innappropriate. But when that does happen it is usually when I am feeling in a "comfortable" position with someone.

And as for the harridans on the Blog for Choice, they need to stop wearing their sexism quite so blatantly on their sleeves. (Especially the moron who referred to Obama as "O Hussein B", who will take out a harassment suit against NARAL if a fundraiser ever calls her again. WTF? ) I am so bored with the "a woman need a man like a fish needs a bicycle" militant tendency now. The only woman Prime Minister we had in this country did absolutely NOTHING to advance the cause for ordinary working women. The predominant changes in sexual equality and freedom of choice happened under male PM's and predominantly male cabinets.

Things have moved on since the 70s, sisters. No need to keep rattling the bars on your cages of patriarchal opression - the doors were blown wide open years ago, if you opened your eyes wide enough to take a look...

[Deckard]

I can understand why some people would find it annoying Cacophony, infuriating even. It's not a good way to speak.

Whether he really is the kind of person to view women in that demeaning way, I'm not so sure. I see nothing else that points to that, and it would seem at odds with what I know about him. Language is frequently formed by habit (itself informed by culture) rather than a direct reflection of those views. I'm not excusing that habit, and I don't dispute that he was wrong to use it - but neither am I sure we can be so quick to assume that it "speaks volumes" about him.

Occasionally phrasing things in a way likely to offend can indeed be indicative of that person's true attitude - but not always. Sometimes it just betrays clumsiness, laziness or - as he said - a bad habit. Sometimes a certain word is just more rife in a certain culture where it doesn't generally offend as much as its roots might suggest. His apology was swift and gracious, though no doubt we could argue over whether it was strategic or genuine (my guess: both), but I'm certainly not going to jump to any conclusions about his attitude to women from this single habit.

(Btw with all the excitement surrounding his candidacy, I'm aware of the danger of idolising him so much that we turn a blind eye to his faults. I consciously try to avoid that and I don't believe I'm doing it in my judgment of him here)

[King of Snake]

pff what's wrong with calling someone "sweetie"?!
It's not like he was calling here ho or bitch
Ok it may have been a tad too "affectionate" for the occasion but I mean come on.. "sweetie"? Is that really so bad?

[Troy McClure]

Well to some people, he might as well have said ho or worse. It is something that Senator Obama needs to change about himself because perception about his personality is under a bigger microscope as each passing day goes by.

I'm not sure that any 'big' endorsement carries as much weight now as it would have a few months ago. They want to be associated with a front-runner just as much as the next group.

Jason

[Strangelet]

Welllllll....

I don't think obama passed any woman up for a raise, and I don't think obama ever told a woman their opinions didn't matter because of their gender, or even treat them with condescension.

I understand "Sweetie" has a tone of condescension, and that words and language are impregnated with culture and their philosophy, but you can take all the "man" out of woman and trade every a for a y, its still not necessary nor sufficient for equal rights for women. I think everyone needs to understand that asap.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

Welllllll....

I don't think obama passed any woman up for a raise, and I don't think obama ever told a woman their opinions didn't matter because of their gender, or even treat them with condescension.

I understand "Sweetie" has a tone of condescension, and that words and language are impregnated with culture and their philosophy, but you can take all the "man" out of woman and trade every a for a y, its still not necessary nor sufficient for equal rights for women. I think everyone needs to understand that asap.

LOL this post brought to you by 4 shots of scotch.... what pap... I mean, even more than usual

[Deckard]

I wish I could come up with a phrase like

words and language are impregnated with culture and their philosophy

when I'm drunk.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Deckard

I wish I could come up with a phrase like
when I'm drunk.

He's such a show-off.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

I say Biden for VP.

absolutely. the dude's awesome.

Originally Posted by BeautifulBurnout

Sorry I completely disagree. What a bunch of stuff over nothing! I have an unfortunate habit of calling people "love", "darling" or "sweetie", whether they are male or female, gay, hetero or transexual in casual chat (Eddy from AbFab, eat yer heart out ). It is nothing to do with diminishing them in any way, but simply a linguistic tick.

one man's meat is another man's poison. that's cool if it doesn't bother you. it bothers me. no amount of "i do it too" is going to make it okay in my mind. and i'm sorry if it makes me a sexist pig but it's a much different matter when a woman says it than when a man says it to a woman.

it's never okay to address an adult woman in terms you might use to address a child. never okay.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by King of Snake

pff what's wrong with calling someone "sweetie"?!
It's not like he was calling here ho or bitch
Ok it may have been a tad too "affectionate" for the occasion but I mean come on.. "sweetie"? Is that really so bad?

what's wrong with calling someone nigger or spic or fag?

you don't get to determine what someone else finds offensive, particularly when you don't belong to the group in question. sorry, life's not fair that way.