irony!

[dubman]

oh im waiting for the day someone tries this nonsense on me.
the shaming... will be very public.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by cacophony

it is now impossible for me to express my dislike of this candidate .... without being "sexist." it doesn't matter that i've defended her, even on this very board, against what i feel are actual unfair comments that betray a gender-bias.

yyyyyyyyyyeahhhhhhhhh.........

Originally Posted by cacophony

and when someone like me, who i'm sure folks here view as something of a knee-jerk feminist, is accused of sexism by republican dittoheads

fwiw, I never thought you were irrational in the slightest. I just think its easier to attack critics of their own irrationality than defend on point. And even easier when there is the posibility people are actually irrational, like on these forums. Its just in my case, I have absolutely no misogynist bone in my body, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by cacophony

so be afraid, everyone. it may look like a slam-dunk for obama but i think we're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. the republicans have struck gold with a subversively divisive issue that will keep all of us from really caring about issues. we'll be lucky to hear another word about health care before this is through.

total political pandemonium this way lies.

I was so sure of the inevitability of lessons learned that I convinced my wife content were she was to come back with me to the states. Who was it that said no one ever went broke underestimating the american people? I wonder how many people have gone broke over estimating them.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

I wonder how many people have gone broke over estimating them.

looking at the federal budget deficit, i'd say all of us.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by cacophony

i have now been accused on 3 separate occasions of being "catty" and a "self-hating sexist" because i dislike sarah palin.

Wow....not just "sexist", but "self-hating sexist"! Clearly these people have an incredible ability to see deep into your psyche and recognize that not only are you a sexist, you're actually so sexist that you even hate yourself....

Originally Posted by cacophony

it doesn't matter if my criticism takes the shape of actual policy dispute or a one-off comment about her demeanor (similar to the "omg GWB can't pronounce words" silliness), it is now impossible for me to express my dislike of this candidate to republicans without being "sexist." it doesn't matter that i've defended her, even on this very board, against what i feel are actual unfair comments that betray a gender-bias. the republican logic still prevails.

It seems that you and I come at the issue of sexism from slightly different directions , so the fact that we're on the same page with this issue tells me that yes, the cries of "sexism" in regards to Sarah Palin are way off base, and to my mind, are even offensive in their blatant opportunism and hypocrisy. And the fact that so many people 1 - are so thrilled with her, and 2 - have adopted this "sexism" plea in regards to her, once again lowers my opinion of human intelligence, honesty, and decency. It amazes me that every time I think I have some loosely realistic idea of where we are as a species, I discover something else that surprises me in a negative way.

Originally Posted by cacophony

i just thought it was an interesting example of how powerful PR is. the republican party invented this discrimination and the party followers have eaten it up. and when someone like me, who i'm sure folks here view as something of a knee-jerk feminist, is accused of sexism by republican dittoheads, you know that's a powerful bit of political marketing.

The question that keeps popping into my mind is, while the Republicans are clearly gaining some traction with this lame tact, are there really many people who actually believe it? It's so hard for me to accept that some random, objective viewer could be watching an exchange like or , and decide that the person who's really making sense on the issue of sexism is Michelle Bachmann. Especially when you consider what an ardent supporter of Hillary's James Carville was. It just seems more likely to me that the conservative base has strategically latched onto this argument despite realizing that it's utter b.s., and the left simply recognizes it as the b.s. it is. So that really only leaves the middle, and are they actually sitting around scratching their heads and wondering "hm...is what James Carville just said demeaning to women? I just don't know..." But again, I've been surprised and disappointed by people before.

Originally Posted by cacophony

so be afraid, everyone. it may look like a slam-dunk for obama but i think we're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. the republicans have struck gold with a subversively divisive issue that will keep all of us from really caring about issues. we'll be lucky to hear another word about health care before this is through.

total political pandemonium this way lies.

Well, as much as I'm not a fan of hers, I personally think that this is a job for Hillary Clinton. She set herself up as such a voice for American women that she's probably the only one who would be able to go after Palin outright while remaining immune to the crap claims of sexism. I know she's just been sent to Florida to do some campaigning for Obama, so hopefully this is included as part of her strategy.

EDIT - Looks like my question about Clinton has been answered. She, like the overall Obama campaign, is focusing less on Palin and more on the overall election and McCain:

At least one Clinton supporter tried instigating that fight (between Clinton and Palin) during a Tampa rally later Monday, interrupting her speech with a shout of "Tell us about Palin!"

Clinton didn't take the bait.

"You know what? I don't think that's what this election is about. This election is about the differences between us and the Republican Party," she said to cheers from the crowd of more than 1,000. "Anybody who believes that the Republicans, whoever they are, can fix the mess they created probably believes that the iceberg could have saved the Titanic."

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by Sean

Wow....not just "sexist", but "self-hating sexist"! Clearly these people have an incredible ability to see deep into your psyche and recognize that not only are you a sexist, you're actually so sexist that you even hate yourself....

It seems that you and I come at the issue of sexism from slightly different directions , so the fact that we're on the same page with this issue tells me that yes, the cries of "sexism" in regards to Sarah Palin are way off base, and to my mind, are even offensive in their blatant opportunism and hypocrisy. And the fact that so many people 1 - are so thrilled with her, and 2 - have adopted this "sexism" plea in regards to her, once again lowers my opinion of human intelligence, honesty, and decency. It amazes me that every time I think I have some loosely realistic idea of where we are as a species, I discover something else that surprises me in a negative way.

The question that keeps popping into my mind is, while the Republicans are clearly gaining some traction with this lame tact, are there really many people who actually believe it? It's so hard for me to accept that some random, objective viewer could be watching an exchange like or , and decide that the person who's really making sense on the issue of sexism is Michelle Bachmann. Especially when you consider what an ardent supporter of Hillary's James Carville was. It just seems more likely to me that the conservative base has strategically latched onto this argument despite realizing that it's utter b.s., and the left simply recognizes it as the b.s. it is. So that really only leaves the middle, and are they actually sitting around scratching their heads and wondering "hm...is what James Carville just said demeaning to women? I just don't know..." But again, I've been surprised and disappointed by people before.

Well, as much as I'm not a fan of hers, I personally think that this is a job for Hillary Clinton. She set herself up as such a voice for American women that she's probably the only one who would be able to go after Palin outright while remaining immune to the crap claims of sexism. I know she's just been sent to Florida to do some campaigning for Obama, so hopefully this is included as part of her strategy.

iokdn sijmk si silmd?