Bungalow with Stairs album

[lowbit]

Originally Posted by negative1

i'm just curious, but what do you mean by hard?

I'm honestly not even sure how to begin to reply to this; the viewpoint presented in your post seems so detached from (at least what I understand as) the normal everyday world, it's left me more or less speechless.

[negative1]

Originally Posted by lowbit

I'm honestly not even sure how to begin to reply to this; the viewpoint presented in your post seems so detached from (at least what I understand as) the normal everyday world, it's left me more or less speechless.

if you want me to restate my points in a briefer manner..

i meant, did you really think it was that hard to find
this release? or any information about it?

i don't see too many other people that did..

i don't check the boards everyday, in fact i've been off
the boards for several months now, and i had no problem
finding out about the release and getting a few copies of it...

if you had subscribed to the thread, or checked the board
you would have known about it..

if you had the bad luck of not knowing about it, and totally
missing out, then that's a different story..

all i'm trying to say is that you could have avoided this
situation with a little more effort on your part to use
the features on this board..

later
-1

[lowbit]

I was checking the board (this forum and thread in particular) virtually every day ever since learning about the Bungalow with Stairs disc back in September. I've had a browser window open on my desktop specifically for that purpose for the last two months. Unfortunately the first time I was unable to check the thread for a couple of days because I was traveling was apparently exactly when they decided to finally make the disc available.

But that's not really the point. This is a compact disc. They can press as many copies as they like, for minimal incremental cost. They can even go back and do another run, if it looks like their original assessment of interest was off. There are entire companies that exist primarily to provide that service inexpensively. Or if even that minimal incremental cost is too much, they could have put the disc up for sale in purely digital form, for virtually no incremental cost.

Any of those solutions would allow those of us interested in hearing the music (not owning some rare collectible – hearing and enjoying the music) to give them money for the privilege of doing so, to compensate them and support their art. Instead they chose to offer only a few copies that were left over from the show, leaving those who want to listen to the music and weren't lucky enough to be monitoring the site or the forums at the right time with no legitimate path to do so.

That's what I mean by making it so hard to get. It's ridiculous. And completely unnecessary.

[froopy seal]

Originally Posted by negative1

http://bigscreensatellite.com/otherstuff.htm

do you think the anti-rom was a release? how many
people ended up getting that? or the playstation 2 project?

Now were do I get those for five quid?

Originally Posted by negative1

this 'release' doesn't encourage anything anymore than
any other 'release' does... don't you think every other
thing they've put out has been copied and released
with the promos also? what makes you think this
would be any different?

if you really want to find the music you will, and if you
really want to make the effort to pay for it, (when you
can)... as a fan, you'll do that also... but they're not
encouraging anyone in any way or form to just take
their property and distribute it freely.. unless they've
expressly said so...

they've released TONS of music,
projects and videos FOR FREE via their site, and
through other means for the fans.. don't you appreciate
that aspect of their efforts?

Maybe the generosity of the band is even counterproductive, in combination with the 'digital age of music': Fans, and other customers, are under the impression that they can buy every release from an online shop for a reasonable price. Hence, everyone gets anything he wants, immediately, and infinitely so due to the infinite reproducibility of digital media.

We've all been spoiled and the film and music industries are still figuring out how to tap that new sense of ubiquitousness...

[GoatSucker]

Any of those solutions would allow those of us interested in hearing the music (not owning some rare collectible – hearing and enjoying the music) to give them money for the privilege of doing so, to compensate them and support their art.

At the risk of reiterating what I mentioned before, this isn't a commercial release. It's not the new Underworld album. This music was released at a certain time and place and had a single objective - to accompany the exhibition. There is no intention to make money from it (other than selling left overs that already exist, and I don't believe there can be any profit made there). Perhaps R&K are doing fine without your money for this? If you want to give them some money, buy one of their commercial releases. Every minute spent sorting out represses or digital downloads takes away time from new, more interesting projects.

Imagine how dull life would be if everytime you created something, you had to stop and think how you could make it available for money. It takes the joy out of doing spontaneous, one-off projects and moving on.

[purlieu]

Originally Posted by negative1

well, it depends on whether or not you consider this
a normal 'release'... obviously it's not a purely commercial one...
so why would it be promoted or distributed the way
any of their other normal ones were?

how many of these were?

I'm not asking for a 'normal' release, I'm asking for them to press up a thousand copies or so and sell them. Honestly, it'd cost them about £500. Or, as others have said, offer a digital version for sale.

this 'release' doesn't encourage anything anymore than
any other 'release' does... don't you think every other
thing they've put out has been copied and released
with the promos also? what makes you think this
would be any different?

The fact that the person who wants it to number of copies available ratio is much higher? The only stuff I download pirate copies of is out of print material, and I dare say it's the same for a lot of fans of my age and older (who, given their time together as a band, are probably a considerable proportion of UW's hardcore fanbase). The fewer copies you make available of a release, the more it encourages pirating.

if you really want to find the music you will, and if you
really want to make the effort to pay for it, (when you
can)... as a fan, you'll do that also... but they're not
encouraging anyone in any way or form to just take
their property and distribute it freely.. unless they've
expressly said so...

The options are: be one of the few who can purchase the release, download it illegally, or don't hear the music. They know they have more fans interested in their music than they had discs for sale, so they're either encouraging us to pirate it, or don't care if we hear it or not. I'd rather think the former, to be honest.

they've released TONS of music,
projects and videos FOR FREE via their site, and
through other means for the fans.. don't you appreciate
that aspect of their efforts?

I do, but I don't think it compensates for making some material difficult to get ahold of. Whether you think the logistics of purchasing the album were hard or not, the limited nature and price of the release mean a fair number of people will miss out. A few mp3s and videos of outtakes and demos is a nice treat, but if the cost is an expensive, extremely limited run of an album people are desperate to hear, then I'd rather not bother.

Anyway, ins and outs aside, the simple fact is: they had two options of making this available to a lot of fans, and they didn't take either, simply choosing a limited, exclusive 'people who can afford to pay a lot of money only' route.
Fans: hey, lots of us want to buy this, can we?
Underworld: no, you're not rich enough, fuck off.

[big screen satellite]

i think you may be missing -1's point...

this is a limited release... its NOT available commercially

it was only available at the exhibition - a bonus for those who attended - it didn't sell out so they made what was left available... when that lot runs out thats IT.

i used to collect KLF records way back and some of their releases were really scarce... what i would have done for an extra 1000 copies to be made of a 12" or CD, but no, they stopped at the production run and that was it - a couple of releases they did odd number copies of, which would have been more counter productive and cost effective if they rounded it up to 500 or 1000 copies, but thats the point... they didn't want to.

now i know in the digital age we want downloads, but the beauty of this item is that its something that you could have taken away from the exhibit, with a catalogue as a momento of your visit... its just lucky that we get the chance to buy any leftovers...its annoying it was in Japan, but its also annoying for me when Star Wars do exclusive weekends at Disneyland and the exclusive only stuff is sold in the US - which i then have to source elsewhere at twice the cost...unfortunatley just because the 1001st fan wants a copy of a record / action figure whatever doesn't mean that the band / manufacturer will or want to knock off extra copies...

i'm always pissed off if i miss getting hold of something even if its just a digital copy, but i somehow seem to manage to track it down one way or another... i know its wrong, but for UW (and i'm not condoning this wholeheattedly) this release is not commercially available and therefore is not out there to make money, so is more or less open to borrowing from the internet


i know they could make more or make it digital, but why would they... they had 180 tracks in the bin for the last few years but these aren't available either... we all have wish lists but thats the beauty (or not) of following bands like UW, its easier now in the 2010's than it was in the 1990's

i know shouting does work, and it may be that in time a copy becomes availble online uw shop, but until then i think we have to accept that this is it. UW are not making it difficult, they made it simple, unfortunatley you had to be in Japan.

[purlieu]

Yeah, I do understand all of that, I just think it's bullshit, really.
I'm a musician, I recently released a very limited run CDr. I don't have a large or strong fanbase, certainly, but once the last copy had sold out I put it online for anybody else to hear. Everybody has their own perspectives on it, and I'm not saying that Underworld 'should' do one thing, especially if the album was intended for the exhibition (although I'm sure I read that there are previously heard sections of this disc? Which would suggest that it wasn't entirely composed for the exhibition - correct me if I'm wrong), but my perspective is: if you're going to share your art, then share it. Don't make it only available for an exclusive group of people who can attend an exhibition in Japan, or happen to be online with a spare wad of cash for a particular few days. Don't make it a competition as to who can get it and who can't.

This isn't the 180 tracks they haven't released, because - one way or another - they haven't felt the time is right to release those. I respect that. I don't respect making it available to some and then simply closing the door on everyone else. And sadly, for anyone not living in Japan, the difference between the two groups seems to be financial (can't afford to get to Japan or pay the extortionate CD price? No music for you, m'laddo).

[potatobroth]

<< I'm a musician, I recently released a very limited run CDr. I don't have a large or strong fanbase, certainly, but once the last copy had sold out I put it online for anybody else to hear. >>

Well how is that fair to the people who spent the money on your album? Aren't you just encouraging people to not pay for your next release? I'd certainly be questioning why I just spent $$ when it was available a month later for free.

[purlieu]

Because it was available as a mid-quality mp3 without the hand-made packaging, and the disc was sold at a low price. I'm not saying it's a model that's necessarily perfect for Underworld, but it highlights my perspective that music shouldn't just be for those who can afford it at the right time. The packaging made it collectable, which was an enjoyable project, but the music is art and I don't want the enjoyment of it to be part of some exclusive little club.