moderators editing members posts

[Sean]

Originally Posted by dubman

eeugh, theres nothing to handle
you were agreeing with the idea of closing the thread, but if seans not going to let it go for the childish play it was, that idea's going to apply here too.

Whoa - hold the phone there, Champ. Sorry, but did you actually just say "if seans not going to let it go for the childish play it was"? Really? All I said was that I "didn't appreciate it" in a thread about moderators editing member posts for no good reason. Did I come out swinging over it? Did I get on your case about it? Did I call for your head? No, no, and no.

Look, I recognized it was meant as a joke in response to my original light-hearted post. That's why this was the first time I even mentioned it despite the fact that I discovered you did it days ago. But on another level, it was a joke I didn't appreciate because it did appear in MY POST, appearing as if it was MY WORDS. You could've delivered it as a reply that quoted me as everyone else here is capable of doing, but instead you actually used your moderator privileges to go into my account and mess with what I wrote because you thought it'd be cute. Whatever...I have a life that's far, far, far more important than this place, but I do reserve the right to call you out on it and let the forum community at large know that you're someone to beware of in this regard. Many people, myself included, may feel a bit more hesitant to participate around here knowing that a moderator may change your posts for their own amusement without telling you, and will then talk smack about you when you bring it up. If that's an overblown thing to want to be aware of, then so be it. But as far as I can see, things are a bit more delicate here in the world forums due to the frequently sensitive nature of the discussions we have here - racism, religion, misogyny, etc. - things that you typically want to make sure you choose your words carefully for, and that you'd hope your words wouldn't be changed by a stranger about.

So seriously, don't act as if I'm making this into something it's not. And don't get on me for "not letting it go" when you haven't even displayed the minimal decency and maturity it would require to say something to me along the lines of "yeah...sorry 'bout that". Somehow, starting right in with a post about how I just "won't let it go" doesn't have the same affect as a simple apology....

Originally Posted by dubman

since the only mods who bother here are BB and myself, it could have been addressed this time though PM

Why would anyone send you a pm about something as you say they should here, after you publicly lashed out at Strangelet over the one he sent you?

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Sean

Why would anyone send you a pm about something as you say they should here, after you publicly lashed out at Strangelet over the one he sent you?

because i was anticipating more and wasnt having it. i wouldnt have posted it if it didnt end in "lets group hug". wtf? why? no. and i saw myself getting more of them with people looking to keep the same division but insisting it's all healed over now. again, no.

but as for that other stuff yeah it was probably a cheap shot. you write so much and hold so much back tho, it's funny. makes the terse posts you do make seem like theyre waiting for someone else with less manners to pick up the umbrage for you.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by dubman

because i was anticipating more and wasnt having it. i wouldnt have posted it if it didnt end in "lets group hug". wtf? why? no. and i saw myself getting more of them with people looking to keep the same division but insisting it's all healed over now. again, no.

So then it's on us to recognize whether you'll deem our messages worthy of being a pm to you or not, and if we guess wrong, then we can expect public belittlement?

Originally Posted by dubman

but as for that other stuff yeah it was probably a cheap shot. you write so much and hold so much back tho, it's funny. makes the terse posts you do make seem like theyre waiting for someone else with less manners to pick up the umbrage for you.

Wow. You managed to deliver an even less effective apology than my suggestion of a simple "yeah...sorry 'bout that". Well done.

And I don't try to bait anyone. I say what I think and mean and you all can reply however you'd like. Yeah, I tend to avoid diving straight into name-calling because it generally misses the point 100%. Instead, I opt to make a smart-ass comment that's actually in regards to the subject at hand. You handle it differently. Great. Thus my post in the GWB thread about me feeling that you were "out of your depth" based on your arguments, and your reply to it which was to call me an "asshole".

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

Thus my post in the GWB thread about me feeling that you were "out of your depth" based on your arguments, and your reply to it which was to call me an "asshole".

to be fair, i found your remark to him about being out of his depth to be just as insulting as the "asshole" retort.

just another unsolicited opinion.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by cacophony

to be fair, i found your remark to him about being out of his depth to be just as insulting as the "asshole" retort.

just another unsolicited opinion.

I would agree that it was equally insulting....and I even freely admit that it was meant to be. But there's still a difference between insulting the arguments he's presented and insulting his personality.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sean

I would agree that it was equally insulting....and I even freely admit that it was meant to be. But there's still a difference between insulting the arguments he's presented and insulting his personality.

eh. i think it's splitting hairs. we all weigh our words and put something of ourselves into our posts. insulting the words is, in a way, insulting the person. telling someone they're out of their depth is still a bit of an ad hominem attack.

whatever, i'm only weighing on this because i think dubman was neither out of his depth nor the first to go for the jugular in that thread.

we're still going around and around so i won't belabor the point. but essentially from where you stand your position was "logical" and "clear" and no one was playing by what you felt were the rules of the discussion. even here you fixated on dubman's opinion that pro-lifers are retarded rather than conceding your debatable point that they're actually motivated by concern for the fetus. i wouldn't disagree with you 100%, but i will disagree strongly if your assertion is that no other motivation exists in that community.

you're still looking at those who disagreed with you in that thread from the standpoint of being "correct." it skews your ability to try to clarify your point in this thread or make any valuable inroads in the resolution of the debate.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Sean

1. So then it's on us to recognize whether you'll deem our messages worthy of being a pm to you or not, and if we guess wrong, then we can expect public belittlement?

2. Wow. You managed to deliver an even less effective apology than my suggestion of a simple "yeah...sorry 'bout that". Well done.

3. Thus my post in the GWB thread about me feeling that you were "out of your depth" based on your arguments, and your reply to it which was to call me an "asshole". It's more about sticking to the point for me.

1. as much as can be dished out on a board. i'm still a member. all the same things that make me a regular poster are still there. i'd say the same whether i was a mod or not.

2. wasnt apologizing and dont intend to. i'll cop to something when im called out on it, but thats about it.

3. sean, i wasn't calling you an asshole (come to think of it, did i? lol. dont remember. ah well) but what i was mainly saying was how you were doing everything but calling me an asshole, which is all you wanted to do if you shave the extraneous bullshit. i dont see how not doing that was sticking to the point, it actually made it funnier. especially since what you did wasnt any different, just more restrained.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by dubman

1. as much as can be dished out on a board. i'm still a member. all the same things that make me a regular poster are still there. i'd say the same whether i was a mod or not.

Understood. But the public airing of private messages is a bit taboo as my understanding of standard forum etiquette goes. As a moderator, I expected that maybe you'd be more mindful of that fact. If you don't intend to be, then that's good to know.

Originally Posted by dubman

2. wasnt apologizing and dont intend to. i'll cop to something when im called out on it, but thats about it.

That's too bad. A moderator changing a forum member's post for their own amusement seems to cross a line that I would've expected at least a mild apology for. But your refusal to do so does tell me that you're a moderator to be wary of, so I guess I still get something out of the deal.

Originally Posted by dubman

3. sean, i wasn't calling you an asshole (come to think of it, did i? lol. dont remember. ah well) but what i was mainly saying was how you were doing everything but calling me an asshole, which is all you wanted to do if you shave the extraneous bullshit. i dont see how not doing that was sticking to the point, it actually made it funnier. especially since what you did wasnt any different, just more restrained.

Yeah, actually you did. You called me a "pedantic asshole" to be specific. Frankly, I don't really care what you call me, I was just pointing out that it's a difference in our approaches.

But to be clear in regards to what you've assumed here about my intent (and to verify the "pedantic" aspect of your name-calling at the same time ), no, what I wrote was not meant to imply that I think you're an asshole. I've never met you, so I don't know if you're an asshole or not. You could be a super guy. All I can do is react to your arguments, and those are what I was referring to. Saying that I believed your arguments displayed to me that you were "out of your depth" on the subject meant just that. Nothing in that statement implies that I'm pretending to know anything about your overall personality. All I know is that though you had ample opportunities, I never felt you represented your steadfast stance in a meaningful way, and so I believe that you had displayed that you were out of your depth in the argument. Sure, that wasn't a nice thing for me to say, but I don't think we were too worried about being "nice" at that point. The point is that there's a big difference between criticizing your arguments and criticizing you as a person.

I do find it interesting though that you've been consistent in dismissing any critical thought about those you disagree with, instead opting to assign whatever label to them that suits your argument. In the GWB thread, it was calling people on the pro-life side of the argument "fucking retards" rather than recognizing the legitimate point that their stance is based on their view of the sanctity of a fetus' life - and in my case, rather than acknowledge that I said your arguments were essentially weak, ineffective and unfair, you've deemed that what I was really saying was that I think you're an asshole. And don't read anything else into this observation. Honest to god, it's just what I said it is - an observation that I find interesting, and that I'll keep in mind in future debates with you.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yeah, actually you did. You called me a "pedantic asshole" to be specific. Frankly, I don't really care what you call me, I was just pointing out that it's a difference in our approaches.

he also called you walter. I mean really...

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

he also called you walter. I mean really...

That one, I actually really liked. Not sure what it meant, but it made me picture myself as some kind of cross between me and Walter Matthau.