All bark and no bite?

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by chuck

Are you saying he had a role in the killing of thousands of Iraqis?

i'm saying there are many in both the american population and the international community who could easily make a logical connection between bush's agenda, his deliberately misconstrued facts, and the current conflict which has cost thousands of innocent iraqis their lives.

i'm not making MY argument. your whole response seems based on an assumption that i'm arguing my personal opinion. i'm talking in broader terms.

Originally Posted by chuck

Quite possibly.

*snort* yeah. right. quite an unrealistic perspective you have there.

Originally Posted by chuck

The ICC is a court - so they'd have to make a case and provide evidence. And direct links between the accused and the said atrocity/genocide.

sure. and they can do that all they want. and they could make an airtight case and proclaim all the guilt they want. but it's going to be the minority of the population who will be willing to have an international body pass judgment on their government and leaders and invade their borders to remove the accused. don't forget, even saddam hussein had thousands of vehement supporters.

i recall the iraqi public opinion after saddam hussein was chased out of baghdad and the big statue came down. there seemed to be a shared sentiment that those who detested saddam were happy he was gone, but that there was an anger and a shame that someone came in uninvited to do the job for them. no, i'm not saying everyone, i'm saying there was a prevalent emotion there that was expressed over and over and over. not everyone wants to be judged by the international community.

it's like how you can bitch about your parents but god forbid someone else do so.

Originally Posted by chuck

So not taking responsiblity for the actions of our elected leaders is what dooms the system to failure?

wrong perspective. it's not about taking responsibility for the actions of our leaders. it's that the evaluation of those actions is a subjective task and every individual makes his or her own determination of guilt, and decides whether "responsibility" is necessary. thus my point about GWB. many people would make the argument that he is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands and thousands of innocent iraqi civilians. and many people would argue that he is not. if an international court decides that GWB should be accused, that's all fine and good. but no one has any right to demand his extradition or that those who agree with his actions should roll over and accept that judgment.

Originally Posted by chuck

No-one's accountable for anything - occasionally in the movies - and occasionally at an election - but no-one really holds anyone accountable. For blow-jobs, for blatant lies, for pissing on the constitution. It's all the same game.

i'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. the world is an unjust place. big revelation there. regardless of whether international accountability is tops on our wish list, it's highly unlikely that it's an attainable goal. it's an unrealistic expectation of the diverse populations of the world. sorry i'm not an idealist. i'm a realist. and that's the reality.