Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?

[Jan]

Technically noone had the right to make the original Bootleg Babies without asking for consent, too. Even audience recordings are under copyright. So basically BB1 was illegal. Of course the situation is different when they got permission. But I don't know.
Sharing bootlegs on RTSR is also illegal. Putting the occasional link to some new or old UW song up here on dirty is illegal.

BUT all good bands like UW let us do that (in certain borders) because they know that eventually it will pay back (new fans...).
Best example: 8 years ago I was exposed to Underworld by an illegal mixtape from my father (guess what song was on it...). I was deeply impressed by that song but I didn't care yet. Then some friend of his burned me an illegal copy of Everything, Everything. I began to search for the internet for Underworld and found the Bootleg Babies. Then I was hooked. That's when I started collecting.

So here's my plan:
1) Get permission from UW and liveherenow
2) Vote for tracks and mix them all together
3) Spread that compilation
4) Watch joyfully as people turn into UW fans and buy all their stuff

[BrotherLovesDub]

Originally Posted by Jan

So here's my plan:
1) Get permission from UW and liveherenow

That is where your plan will end.

if you want to do this, don't discuss it on the message boards. have everyone who's interested PM you their details, set up an email list and discuss it there. it's just not a good idea to recompile stuff that's available and give it away for free.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Jan

Technically noone had the right to make the original Bootleg Babies without asking for consent, too. Even audience recordings are under copyright. So basically BB1 was illegal. Of course the situation is different when they got permission. But I don't know.
Sharing bootlegs on RTSR is also illegal. Putting the occasional link to some new or old UW song up here on dirty is illegal.

BUT all good bands like UW let us do that (in certain borders) because they know that eventually it will pay back (new fans...).
Best example: 8 years ago I was exposed to Underworld by an illegal mixtape from my father (guess what song was on it...). I was deeply impressed by that song but I didn't care yet. Then some friend of his burned me an illegal copy of Everything, Everything. I began to search for the internet for Underworld and found the Bootleg Babies. Then I was hooked. That's when I started collecting.

So here's my plan:
1) Get permission from UW and liveherenow
2) Vote for tracks and mix them all together
3) Spread that compilation
4) Watch joyfully as people turn into UW fans and buy all their stuff

thats a long post to be simply rebuked by saying NONE OF THOSE OTHER BOOTLEGS WERE FOR SALE.
first one was technically illegal, and even more technically so because no profit was made from them. they were never put up for sale, never sold, and never distributed as the liveherenow recordings have been
so that's quite a difference and explains why liveherenow are a big no-no on the rtsr circuit.
so no, liveherenow recordings would not be acceptable in any way. the idea of getting permission is preposterous, as permission was never given out even for the recordings that were recorded by fans and excellently compiled. the idea that this might happen for purchaseable items just for fan service is pretty absurd.

besides, let's make this interesting.

[holden]

Agree that the liveherenow tracks are not to be dispersed for free.

The copyrighting of concert recordings is an issue when bootlegs are sold. Recording concerts is as old as the hills and many, many bands are fine with the hardcore fans doing this and trading freely (in the spirit of RTSR). The difference comes when its a professionally-produced "Live" album, like EE or the soundboard recordings from liveherenow that are intended for profit are sold or distributed second-hand.

So, knocking out the LHN recordings, can we nominate from the canon of fan recordings from 2000 - present? Additionally, there's several excellent gigs that UW has shared on UWLive or broadcast (e.g. Osaka 05, Cocoon 06, Oblivion Ball and Roundhouse 07).

Quick count from my shelves...i've got at least 45 fan/broadcast recordings from 2000 on, and there are plenty more, i'm sure. We should have no problem if this is to go forward. "If" being the operative word

[negative1]

Originally Posted by Dirty0900

Is this a viable project at all? We have top quality recordings and enough songs to really make something amazingly good if enough time,skill and effort is put in to it. But would there be copyright issues with the recordings, though it would be something not meant to sell, just distributing. Right?

we've already made a few attempts at this,
right after they came out:

check back through the threads here:
http://www.darktrain.org/dirty/forum...t=6875&page=15

(i bumped it back up)

your best bet is just pick the tracks, and
mix them yourself..

later
-1

[TheBang]

Originally Posted by holden

The copyrighting of concert recordings is an issue when bootlegs are sold. Recording concerts is as old as the hills and many, many bands are fine with the hardcore fans doing this and trading freely (in the spirit of RTSR). The difference comes when its a professionally-produced "Live" album, like EE or the soundboard recordings from liveherenow that are intended for profit are sold or distributed second-hand.

Just want to clear up this common Internet (and before the Internet) misconception. Jan was correct when he said even audience recordings are covered by copyright law, whether sold or distributed for free.

Educate yourself:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap11.html

That said, while it is technically against the law, it's rarely, if ever, prosecuted. Mostly bands look the other way (talking about audience boots here). And some have even given explicit permission for P2P sharing of live shows (Pearl Jam, Phish, John Mayer).

[galama]

After healthy sales would anyone, especially LHN, really care if some hardcore fans compile a CD? I don't think so. Would anyone get persecuted? Probably not, but definitely YES if someone is actually trying to make money.
And finally, with all the piracy made possible by the beautiful internet, we are huring no one, hurting no one.
We can come up with lots of pros and cons and never make a move. It's interesting where this is going to. Methinks it all comes down to consensus.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by galama

After healthy sales would anyone, especially LHN, really care if some hardcore fans compile a CD? I don't think so. Would anyone get persecuted? Probably not, but definitely YES if someone is actually trying to make money.
And finally, with all the piracy made possible by the beautiful internet, we are huring no one, hurting no one.
We can come up with lots of pros and cons and never make a move. It's interesting where this is going to. Methinks it all comes down to consensus.

<rant>
Would anyone, especially Underworld, get pissed off at reading this, after all the free goodies, the live streamings, the radio shows they give us hardcore fans year in year out? Damn!

Whether you are trying to make money from it or not is irrelevant. What you are doing by suggesting sharing this kind of thing is preventing THEM from making money from one of their own products. Irrespective of the legality or the likelihood of being sued, it is morally wrong to do that, especially on here, and especially if you are a fan.

Methinks it all comes down to some people wanting something for nothing - again. And Karl was right to have his little dig about that during the Southampton radio broadcast too, because no matter how much they give us, there always seems to be someone who wants more for free, rather than sticking their hand in their pocket.

Show some respect, ffs. Do whatever you want to do privately, but don't promote stealing music from our favourite band on their official fan forum. Ta.

</rant>

Edit: On the point of BB1 being illegal or otherwise, my understanding is that permission was sought and given for that project. It most certainly would not be for something like this, for all the reasons stated

[Jan]

wtf? It should be clear that without permission anything that goes beyond a private project is crossing the line.
But, if we could get permission from UW and liveherenow to make a compilation... that'd be another thing.
A compilation like this is a great chance for UW to spread their music even further. See it from that side. It's the best advertising they can get. They are, in fact, not losing money, but instead making new fans and more money.
Ask yourself how you got into UW or other bands. Okay, the majority through Trainspotting or listening to UW in a club. But there are also lots of people who got into UW with illegal or at least "half-illegal" means (like mixtapes, CD copied by a friend, Bootleg Babies).

[big screen satellite]

hows about compiling a best of the live here now series, on paper, here on the board...

then we take it to 'live here now' and suggest that it be put out as a 'best of' of the live here now releases, more like an 'Everything Everything 2'... or perhaps even get UW to suggest this idea to live here now...

we choose the tracks, they mix / compile it and we buy it from them... they have the source files and the facilities - if its tracklisting comes from us, then the know that they will get buyers because its what we want....

surely thats the best option...


(most likely unworkable / but the best option, imo)

i'll speak to the guys