British muslims protest Bin ladens death

[human151]

Originally Posted by stimpee

human151 does get everyone going tho

which is 50% of my purpose here. You all are pretty much on the same page, politically. I just try to stir things up a bit, form time to time. The other 50% of my purpose is to play devils advocate in a way. You all want to believe that most people are great and everyone loves everyone else, and that the specific groups of people that are causing issues around the world are just a small amount and its really no big deal.

Well, yes it is statistically a small amount of people, I am not ignorant enough to believe that all muslims are horrible people. I am not ignorant enough to believe that half of all muslims are bad. I am not ignoratn enough to believe that even 15% percent are bad. But I am intelligent enough to believe (and admit) that even though the number of muslims which act in a ill manner are statistically minute, it still equals a significant amount of people. Also, even if the amount of muslims which actually kidnap people and cut their heads off is small, there are much more people that support their ideology. If that were not so, then tehy would have been marginalized a long time ago. Instead, they are popular enough, and are able to get the funding, to continue to drag out two wars against the most powerful Nations on earth. Obviously, are marginalized group would not be able to do that.

Imagine some crack pot group of christian zealots waging war for 10 years against the combined power of the United States and England, et al....that would not happen, because these morons could neither get the finding nor popular support to do it. They'd be wiped out in days, if not hours. But, the muslims you people hold so dear and say have only minimal support, are able to wage war against the most powerful nations on earth, for what, 10 years now? Be honest, could a group of religious zealots do this if they did not have widespread support, politically and financially.

As for "british people Protesting" yes, it was inflammatory. I knew that when I started the thread. Be honest, who, besides me gets good threadds going which are good arguments? NO one, everyone usually agrees with each other (you people know that is true). Yes, I am also a bit angry at The UK. Your society allows unimpeded immigration to your country by people who would get angry about my country killing a mass murderer. How much blood was on the hands of Bin Laden? And your citizens are protesting against my country for killing a man like that? Did these same british citizens protest on 7/7? Did they protest when the horrors of innocent brits bleeding to death because thy had their legs blown off then bled to death? No, your citizens did not. But they did protest when the man responsible for inspiring the attacks was killed. That is grotesque. Do you think The morons who carried out the attacks would have carried it out if they did were not inspired by al qaeda?

But im the one getting called out when I bring it to the spotlight. Instead of hating on me, you people should be calling up your MP's to get these idiots deported. But no...theyre not the problem, I am. lulz.

Hte all you want, Ive been here a long time and unless stimpee or som administrator bans me again, I'll continue to pop up from time to time.

And if I were under 18 the I would have to have been what, 9 when I started posting?

Some of you only see things through your world view.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by human151

You all want to believe that most people are great and everyone loves everyone else, and that the specific groups of people that are causing issues around the world are just a small amount and its really no big deal.

Who said anything of the sort?

Originally Posted by human151

Well, yes it is statistically a small amount of people, I am not ignorant enough to believe that all muslims are horrible people. I am not ignorant enough to believe that half of all muslims are bad. I am not ignoratn enough to believe that even 15% percent are bad. But I am intelligent enough to believe (and admit) that even though the number of muslims which act in a ill manner are statistically minute, it still equals a significant amount of people.

THAT'S what we've all been saying. CONSISTANTLY!

Originally Posted by human151

But im the one getting called out when I bring it to the spotlight. Instead of hating on me, you people should be calling up your MP's to get these idiots deported. But no...theyre not the problem, I am. lulz.

No,you get called out for misrepresenting everyone here's words (see beginning of my reply) and NOT showing the subtlety of thought that you've finally shown a brief glimmer of just above.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

yeah, yeah, yeah, but.......am I special?

K, have fun guys you won't hear from me for a while. I'll be back to wreck havoc on your intellects in a few weeks.

[bryantm3]

Well, yes it is statistically a small amount of people, I am not ignorant enough to believe that all muslims are horrible people. I am not ignorant enough to believe that half of all muslims are bad. I am not ignoratn enough to believe that even 15% percent are bad. But I am intelligent enough to believe (and admit) that even though the number of muslims which act in a ill manner are statistically minute, it still equals a significant amount of people. Also, even if the amount of muslims which actually kidnap people and cut their heads off is small, there are much more people that support their ideology. If that were not so, then tehy would have been marginalized a long time ago. Instead, they are popular enough, and are able to get the funding, to continue to drag out two wars against the most powerful Nations on earth. Obviously, are marginalized group would not be able to do that.

Imagine some crack pot group of christian zealots waging war for 10 years against the combined power of the United States and England, et al....that would not happen, because these morons could neither get the finding nor popular support to do it. They'd be wiped out in days, if not hours. But, the muslims you people hold so dear and say have only minimal support, are able to wage war against the most powerful nations on earth, for what, 10 years now? Be honest, could a group of religious zealots do this if they did not have widespread support, politically and financially.

actually you make a good point, here. this is actually what i thought before i went to a convention a couple of years ago in dunwoody georgia of political scientists and economists that study terror groups and gangs across the globe.

i was under the impression that al qaeda is an expensive organization to run, but it turns out that's not really true: they only need (and i'm ballparking here, i don't remember the exact number but it was surprisingly low) $15,000 USD to keep their organization running. and once you think about it, it actually becomes quite obvious that they would not need a lot of money. although you state that they are waging war, that isn't really accurate— we aren't in constant combat with them, which would make them continuously need weapons and ammunition to the degree that a country would. the only time they come out of their rathole in pakistan/afghanistan is to commit a terrorist attack on a foreign country— they maybe do this 1-2 times a year and it takes a lot of planning for them to carry this out, because they bypass the rules of war and sneak in to kill innocent people. how much do you think it costs to have a few guys fly in planes around the US to examine existing security protocol? the price of a plane ticket.

that's what was so fucked up, we were going about our daily lives and relying on the golden rule for the airlines, for the most part. there wasn't any need to strip search everyone. they took our leniency and kindness and exploited it. it didn't cost them much at all— all they had to do was get the guys on the planes. that's what's so scary about them— they don't need any money at all to commit such terrorist attacks. the london, madrid bombings, weren't committed with complex machinery or nuclear material, they were things like pipe bombs and hand made explosives that you can make fairly inexpensively.

and then afterwards, they go back into another country with tons of caves and hideouts and it's impossible to find them *because* there are so few of them and *because* they don't exchange a lot of money.

the thing that got them so enabled to operate was the internet in the late 1990s. completely anonymous, cheap communication through e-mail accounts and non-ip-based file sharing for more heinous materials. it instantly connected them so they were able to carry out acts like this and communicate quickly with each other while the attacks were being carried out.

this is versus a gang, such as the triads or the yakuza who make their living off of crime— their goal is a lot of money and they make it any way they can. al qaeda doesn't operate like this— they don't want money, they just want you dead. the fact that they have that kind of motivation makes them an extremely dangerous and effective organization, because unlike an economic venture, where you can always get out, they have their "religion" (or so they believe) at stake, which gives them the kind of commitment that you don't even find with political movements. it's not money or funding that makes them dangerous— it's their mindset.

[human151]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i don't remember the exact number but it was surprisingly low) $15,000 USD to keep their organization running. and once you think about it, it actually becomes quite obvious that they would not need a lot of money. although you state that they are waging war...

while your assessment may hold true for some small group, this is a global terrorist organization were talking about here.

Just the cost in weapons alone has to run in the millions of dollars each year. Just one AK-47 cost about $800, on the cheap side of the scale. But, for uses in this example, lets say that they can get an AK-47 for $200. Do you actually believe that the entire organization (including the al qaeda affiliate groups) only need 30 AK-47's each year? Not to mention all the RPG's and bomb making material, as well as ammunition.

Then there is travel. This organization is world wide. Im sure they have some agents that travel for meetings. Then there is the pay, as im sure terrorists need money too. I am sure many of them have families to support. I am also sure that Al Qaeda has sleep agents in many countries and I am sure the upkeep on these agents is not cheap either. For example, alqaeda put all of the 9/11 terrorists through flight training. So on top of the expense of housing while they were in the united states, each person went though flight training at the cost of thousands of dollars per person. They have also proven that the 9/11 terrorists also flew between states in the US, and even went to las vegas. So, as you can see, to run an operation such as al qaeda is not cheap.

Also, just FYI, while it is true that most of the time the opposing forces fight by remotely detonated bombs and through the use of suicide bombers, there have been many instances there they do attack forward operating bases, and also try to defend strategic locations.

Here is on example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...surgent_forces

Also,

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ira...ase_in_ramadi/

"Leaflets were distributed and posted on walls, saying al Qaeda in Iraq, the group led by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was taking over the city. “Its followers will burn the Americans and will drive them back to their homes by force. Iraq will be a graveyard for the Americans and its allies,” one of the leaflets read."

while these examples are a few years old, this still goes on (not so much in Iraq anymore) . These are the only specific examples I can recall at the moment.

[Rog]

Originally Posted by human151

you people should be calling up your MP's to get these idiots deported.
.

hmmm, i don't think we can deport british citizens from britain........

[//\/\/]

bryantm3 - like deckard and sean say; this isn't new... anyway - OOOH LOOK - A GOAT!

[//\/\/]

...which is why efforts get focussed at cutting off their supply of willing cannon-fodder. It takes an awful lot for somebody to be willing to give up their life - but a short life of constant propaganda and indoctrination can sway people of any argument. If all you've ever hear *ever* is that X hates you, Y is the correct way to act and Z will be your eternal reward, then matrydom suddenly becomes a viable life-choice.

This is applicable globally. Unless people get to see more sides, those who control the information flow will always be able to exploit it. From a radical mullah through to Glen Beck...

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by human151

But I am intelligent enough to believe (and admit) that even though the number of muslims which act in a ill manner are statistically minute, it still equals a significant amount of people.

A statistically minute yet significant amount of people?

Define 'significant'.

Let's say the security services uncovered a terror group of 500 British Muslims actively plotting to attack the UK. Would 500 such people count as a significant number to you?

[human151]

Originally Posted by Deckard

A statistically minute yet significant amount of people?

Define 'significant'.

Let's say the security services uncovered a terror group of 500 British Muslims actively plotting to attack the UK. Would 500 such people count as a significant number to you?

"in Lebanon, just 34 percent of Muslims surveyed said that suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified, compared to 74 percent who expressed the same view in 2002. Only eight percent of those polled in Egypt believed suicide bombing was justified, as did 11 percent in Morocco.

In contrast, 41 percent of Palestinians said such attacks are often justified while another 29 percent said it can sometimes be justified. The poll was conducted between April and May, before Hamas took over the Gaza Strip following violent clashes with Fatah.

The survey also reflected declining support - identified as "Muslim confidence" - for Osama bin Laden. The percentage of Jordanian Muslims who support bin Laden dropped from 56 percent in 2003 to just 20 percent in 2007. "

this does not exactly answer the question, but is the only stats I could easily find.

There are over a billion muslims world wide. If only %5 are extremist or share their views, then that is 50,000,000 muslims who are extremists or sympathize with their views.