Denver show now at the Fillmore Auditorium

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Professor

the band absolutely had a hand in the decision, the promoters absolutely didn't promote well enough and the whole entitiy that is underworld has let me PERSONALLY down. fuck off dubman.

you fuck off.
it's amazing how the tons of sympathy i've had for your situation is just flying out the window because you're yelling, cancelling, abandoning and cursing everything in sight before peep one from the underworld camp. you feel fucked so obviously it must have been a bait and switch underworld was privy to. never mind that they might be just as disappointed because no one bought tickets. never mind that tons of people who were setting this up were disappointed and saddened as well, it was your wedding week.
the warfield and fillmore here in SF arent the best either. it's got a small floor so it feels allright, but a lot of standing room is taken by fucking tables and the crowds have to be pushed from here to kingdom come to get moving, but the soundsystem is great and it's still underworld at the controls, so a complete cancellation/email bomb/blood vendetta because it's not a legendary venue is, at the end of the day, really petty.

i know i'm being a dick and crapping on people who already feel beat down about this, but how fucking badly are you missing the big picture if you launch into this because there isnt as much eye candy than you were looking forward to?

[Professor]

dubman, it was rude of me to swear at you. true. i'm sorry about that. it's totally stupid to actually vent on a forum anyway. i'm sourly dissapointed and won't be going. they could have easily played vancouver instead of denver. the ONLY point in going to denver was to see them at red rocks. it's pretty rocks, sure, but that was a really HUGE deal making that decision. my response was reactionary, and i appologize. i didn't really mean to attack you, but i'm pretty upset.

[mmm skyscraper]

Maybe they'll play 'til the venue cuts the power.

[dubman]

Originally Posted by Professor

dubman, it was rude of me to swear at you. true. i'm sorry about that. it's totally stupid to actually vent on a forum anyway. i'm sourly dissapointed and won't be going. they could have easily played vancouver instead of denver. the ONLY point in going to denver was to see them at red rocks. it's pretty rocks, sure, but that was a really HUGE deal making that decision. my response was reactionary, and i appologize. i didn't really mean to attack you, but i'm pretty upset.

obviously with my own outburst i'm well familiar with knee-jerk reactions, so i also should have been more understanding. because i understand that sort of disappointment and it takes me a couple of hours/days to get the right perspective, but during that time it's way tempting to vent somewhere, anywhere.
it just that the actual group was dragged in there, and i had JUST come back from the 2nd warfield show
in hindsight it was a bad set of circumstances.
so i apologize too.

HUGZ.

buuuuuut... you should go.
you havent canceled yet right?

[swillhite]

Red Rocks Sucks. The walk from the parking lot to the seating is like climbing Everest, it always rains, the wind blows 120 miles per hour, there's always some guy who pukes behind you and runs down on your seat, the high altitude makes the performers too tired to put on a good show, there's too many hippies from Boulder, and you always get pulled over on the way home. I'm glad they moved the show....

willy
www.myspace.com/thenightowl

[Floating Dave]

it's a great shame when things like this happen but the bottom line is that the promoter is responsible.

In theory anyone can be a promoter. You can ring up a band's manager and say "I want Underworld to play at the Hollywood Bowl on 25th May 2009. How much?"

The manager would see if the band were interested ("wow, the Hollywood bowl eh - that's fantastic") and if so they'd come back with a price. Let's say $60k to cover their time, travel, crew etc

The promoter would then ring the Hollywood Bowl and say "I need to hire the venue on 25th May 2009. How much?"

"That'll be $300,000"

They've then got to do the math (18000 capacity @ $30 a ticket = $540,000 less $300,000 and $60,000) "Awesome", he thinks, I can make $180,000 on a gig.

Of course he has to actually 'promote' it and some inexperienced or greedy promoters might think "Fuck it, I'll do 95% of it via the fan base - viral marketing is cheap and effective enough. Then I'll spend $50k on some other bits and I'll still walk away with $120-$130k."

As the date looms the band will be asking "How's ticket sales?" thinking that everything is in hand. The promoter's reply will be "Great" (largely because all promoters only talk in superlatives and only tell people what they want to hear), so the band will be totally in the dark until the 11th hour when the promoter does the math again and realises "Holy shit, i've only sold 4000 tickets"

So that's overheads of $360,00 + inadequate marketing of $50k = $410,000
Less the sales of 4000 tickets @ $30 = $120,000
Leaving a grand loss of $290,000

"Oh shit" cue call to band management to say "Huston we have a problem"

This stuff always happens at the 11th hour and the band will be incredibly pissed-off about the whole affair and as such the chances of working with/for that promoter again will be somewhere between nil and zero because not only has the promoter proved themelves inept, they've also pissed-off the one thing that's most valuable to any band - their fans.

The promoter, having been given a rocket up his ass, would run round like a headless chicken and find an alternative venue with lower overheads and a smaller capacity and will offer the band an alternative (say, The House Of Blues). The band, seeing a way of not letting down their fans will decide to go with it and try and make the best of a bad job - after all they've planned to be in this area anyway.

Afterwards, if the promoter has any decency, he'll skulk off to work in a burger bar. Otherwise, he'll probably set up a record company

[big screen satellite]

i am so sorry to all those who wanted to see UW at Red Rocks, i really am, but i am pleased UW decied to relocate... it was obviously a big last minute decision to make, but most probably the right one in the light of day....

there are several issues here...

but simply the main one is that Underworld are, imo, no longer big enough to play these types of venues in the USA. I appreciate that there are thousands of UW fans out there and in the US, but i think a band that has not released any new /mainstream material in 5 years would struggle to fill a venue like Red Rocks now... (maybe after the new album drops, but before...mmm)

Underworld are still pretty large and influential in Europe, but even then i think they would stuggle to headline a number of large venues, even in this country... they sell out over here mainly because the venues they take on are small intermate and, again imo, better suited to the UW set up.

i just wonder if their stock in the US has fallen - the hard core fans will always show up, and it must have been those who bought the tix, but the harsh reality of it is, is that Underworld are just not that big a draw in the USA...

i know the guys in the US will state that there are plenty of fans, but thats simply not the case... otherwise this event would be on (ie. sold out) ... logistically it costs a great deal to tour the US, and I know Underworld will themselves personally be pissed off by this

i'm not blaming anyone except the promoters, but i think the last time UW played in the US they were a bigger proposition and more popular than they are now... its sad, but i think probably the truth, especially where the US is concerned

(note: i base none of this on actual fact, but speculation and the reality that they have not sold enough tickets for this one event)

i'm glad you guys are getting to see one of the best bands of the 90's still touring, so wherever they play enjoy it... its a long way to come and play, and they love you - so don't hate, you know you love them still - its just the fickle fans from years back who've lost the love that have caused this set back.

[Scott Warner]

This stuff always happens at the 11th hour and the band will be incredibly pissed-off about the whole affair and as such the chances of working with/for that promoter again will be somewhere between nil and zero because not only have they proved themelves inept, they've also pissed-off the one thing that's most valuable to any band - their fans.

That's an understatement in this situation. The guys are very upset about it. They basically had two options: relocate or cancel.

but simply the main one is that Underworld are, imo, no longer big enough to play these types of venues in the USA.

Depends on the region, really. They packed the Hollywood Bowl last night and that's a fairly large venue with a lot of history. In Los Angeles Underworld have established themselves as great live performers via their individual gigs and two Coachella stage headlining performances so there's likely to always be a sizeable, promotable audience here despite the ebb and flow in popular music.