Arizona - WTF?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Sean

So Arizona's been passing some fun new legislation these days. And by "fun", of course I mean "idiotic".

First up is SB 1024, the "birther"-appeasing bill that will require the Arizona Secretary of State to verify the citizenship of presidential candidates. Not surprisingly, this bill passed with exclusively Republican support. And while it's an idiotic bill, it did make for some over the so-called reasoning behind passing it.

And then of course there's the fancy new immigration bill, SB 1070, which requires law enforcement folks to demand proof of citizenship "where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States". Now, to justify "reasonable suspicion", but the bill assures us that "a law enforcement official or agency...may not solely consider race, color, or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent allowed by the United States or Arizona constitution". Of course "solely" is a pretty key word in this stipulation. They can consider race, color and national origin as long as they've also considered, for example, the color of the person in question's shirt as well.

But these paper-thin restrictions are enough for people like the queen of morons herself, Sarah Palin, to declare "There is no ability or opportunity in there for the racial profiling. And shame on the lame stream media again for turning this into something that it is not." I'm not sure that Sarah has read this bill based on what she says, but hey - why expect her to be informed about anything at this point in the game, right? Anyway, I find it interesting that the same people who love to call Obama a "fascist" among other things are now the only ones in the country that are actually passing legislation that will literally have police on the streets reciting the fascist catch-phrase, "papers please..." And if they don't do their mandated job of asking for papers, then "a person who is a legal resident of this state may bring an action in superior court to challenge any official or agency...that adopts or implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law."

Arizona is getting awfully scary.

You know what comes across more than anything in all the instances you mention here is fear. The people pushing these things are feeling fearful. Threatened by people they feel are "not like us". Infiltrated by "outsiders".

(Why they only appear to have started thinking this way in the last 18 months or so, I couldn't possibly speculate............ )

The Republican leadership should be distancing themselves from this paranoid nonsense - not encouraging it.

Probably time for yet another remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, to take advantage of this 'aliens among us' zeitgeist.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

I'd be curious to see what actually gets done over there. I never really thought Arizona was a racist state. If you were racist, you wouldn't want to live there. I don't really know the details of the other things you mentioned but I dunno, I always thought MLK day was kind of a silly holiday too (and I don't believe I am a racist). The accent thing is very disturbing but I'll wait for more details - yeah this sounds pretty bad but I can understand. In college I had several professors whose accents were so thick that many students ended up doing pretty badly because they couldn't understand a word they were saying. I wonder if this "law" is going to affect people with "normal" Mexican accents or only the really thick ones. This sounds like a law that ultimately will not have any teeth. The backlash from 'enforcing' this would be huge.

As for this bill, you got me, I really don't have much of an opinion on it yet, I'm just saying I'm not surprised that Arizona is taking action given what's going on there. To be honest, every bill that I have followed almost never has the types of effects that are speculated. The one bill that really affected my life (the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act) was supposed to take away my source of income for good, but in the end it did almost nothing besides make depositing and withdrawling money online harder. My initial impression was that it was bad because it invites racial profiling, but honestly I don't know if there's a better idea for curbing the problem.

Many people are assuming "reasonable suspicion" means "anyone who is brown". I find it kind of shit that the governor who passed this won't even really say what we're all thinking. Again I would have to see how it's being enforced. Maybe this law will say that we can ID people because they're Mexican and throw them in jail because they didn't have their passport in the same way IRS law says they can force a person to show reciepts for everything they own and prove they have no 'hidden income' or they can give them stiff penalties. Scary, but almost never happens. Actually, if the police who 'enforce' this are smart and non-biased, I don't think it would really effect the innocents too much, and may give them the ability to bust some bad people they couldn't before. You know how Al Capone went down for tax evasion...

The second part looks real fuzzy, and again I'd have to get a real-world example of something that actually happened before I can really pass judgement on that. Maybe you're disillusioned with America and I'm too optimistic, but I can't see that scenario you came up with ever actually occuring.

Calling this a step towards a "shameful chapter" really sounds like an overreaction to me. It's like you feel as though this bill gives racist cops the ability to jail any Mexican for no reason. You can claim the bill looks fascist and indeed parts of it do, but if it's anywhere near what people are fearing there is no chance it stands as written. The law hasn't even been enforced yet and already they're talking about MLB moving the All-Star game because the Latinos (which are like 40% of the league now) would refuse to play. As I recall, the Patriot Act gave the government some really, really scary powers too, but I can't think of any abuses or anyone who was even affected at all by it.

[Sean]

Okay Arizona, explain to me how this latest story isn't motivated by bigotry:

Altered mural fuels racial debate in Prescott

A group of artists has been asked to lighten the faces of children depicted in a giant public mural at a Prescott school.

The project's leader says he was ordered to lighten the skin tone after complaints about the children's ethnicity. But the school's principal says the request was only to fix shading and had nothing to do with political pressure.

The "Go on Green" mural, which covers two walls outside Miller Valley Elementary School, was designed to advertise a campaign for environmentally friendly transportation. It features portraits of four children, with a Hispanic boy as the dominant figure.

R.E. Wall, director of Prescott's Downtown Mural Project, said he and other artists were subjected to slurs from motorists as they worked on the painting at one of the town's most prominent intersections.

"We consistently, for two months, had people shouting racial slander from their cars," Wall said. "We had children painting with us, and here come these yells of (epithet for Blacks) and (epithet for Hispanics)."

Wall said school Principal Jeff Lane pressed him to make the children's faces appear happier and brighter.

"It is being lightened because of the controversy," Wall said, adding that "they want it to look like the children are coming into light."

Lane said that he received only three complaints about the mural and that his request for a touch-up had nothing to do with political pressure. "We asked them to fix the shading on the children's faces," he said. "We were looking at it from an artistic view. Nothing at all to do with race."

City Councilman Steve Blair spearheaded a public campaign on his talk show at Prescott radio station KYCA-AM (1490) to remove the mural.

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"

Blair could not be reached for comment Thursday. In audio archives of his radio show, Blair discusses the mural. He insists the controversy isn't about racism but says the mural is intended to create racial controversy where none existed before.

"Personally, I think it's pathetic," he says. "You have changed the ambience of that building to excite some kind of diversity power struggle that doesn't exist in Prescott, Arizona. And I'm ashamed of that."

Faces in the mural were drawn from photographs of children enrolled at Miller Valley, a K-5 school with 380 students and the highest ethnic mix of any school in Prescott. Wall said thousands of town residents volunteered or donated to the project, the fourth in a series of community murals painted by a group of artists known as the "Mural Mice."

The public art, funded by a $5,000 state grant through the Prescott Alternative Transportation Center, was selected by school students and faculty.

"The parents and children love it," Lane said.

[//\/\/]

"they want it to look like the children are coming into the light'' -er skinned world that we prefer?

[Troy McClure]

I am 33 live in Phoenix, and was born and raised here. The climate of hate being perpetrated here is disgusting and sad. The lies that Governor Jan Brewer spouts aren't even quality lies. They are easily disproved within the hour.

Short takeaway...there are a few people in Arizona who shape the hate to benefit their careers here:

Governor Jan Brewer
State Senator Russell Pearce
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu
former sportscaster, US Congressman, and radio talk show host, JD Hayworth

I plan to write something more in depth about each person.

Jan Brewer is on video stating that SB1070 'has nothing to do with border security' and today she said in a speech that the police understand 'how immigration is hurting us'. Articles are stating that she later said that she meant to say illegal immigration. But I've yet to see that verified.

Jason

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Troy McClure

I am 33 live in Phoenix, and was born and raised here. The climate of hate being perpetrated here is disgusting and sad. The lies that Governor Jan Brewer spouts aren't even quality lies. They are easily disproved within the hour.

Short takeaway...there are a few people in Arizona who shape the hate to benefit their careers here:

Governor Jan Brewer
State Senator Russell Pearce
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu
former sportscaster, US Congressman, and radio talk show host, JD Hayworth

I plan to write something more in depth about each person.

Jan Brewer is on video stating that SB1070 'has nothing to do with border security' and today she said in a speech that the police understand 'how immigration is hurting us'. Articles are stating that she later said that she meant to say illegal immigration. But I've yet to see that verified.

Jason

I'd love to hear your more in depth descriptions of each. This stuff in Arizona is very scary to me, and I want to understand as much as I can about it.

Thanks Troy!

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by Troy McClure

Jan Brewer is on video stating that SB1070 'has nothing to do with border security' and today she said in a speech that the police understand 'how immigration is hurting us'. Articles are stating that she later said that she meant to say illegal immigration. But I've yet to see that verified.

Jason

Ummm well no politican ever would ever purposely say that immigration in general is hurting us and I sincerely doubt Brewer feels that way. Kinda weird how everyone (not from AZ) is quick to suspect everyone in the state of racism, especially the politicans and police, when like half of them are Mexican anyway.

[Rex]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Kinda weird how everyone (not from AZ) is quick to suspect everyone in the state of racism, especially the politicans and police, when like half of them are Mexican anyway.

I'm from Utah where people are proposing the same bill. And I'm calling racism. The same racism that went around beating the "english should be the official language of Utah" drum. I'm also not ever moving back in case it passes. That's how serious this is. What I find interesting is conservatives who aren't even around the border calling liberals who are around the border arm chair critics.

Even more hilarious are conservatives who bitch and moan about the jobs lost to illegals just because hector just washed their dishes on the way back to shopping at walmart where everything buyable was made in china.

Multi-nationals sending *ALL* jobs to china or Lupe washing your dishes. Conservatives who can't point to the problem in this scenario are either fucking imbeciles or racist. Line up and pick your favorite badge.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Ummm well no politican ever would ever purposely say that immigration in general is hurting us

Serious?

Originally Posted by Rex

either fucking imbeciles or racist. Line up and pick your favorite badge.

Isn't there one with both on?

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by Rex

I'm from Utah where people are proposing the same bill. And I'm calling racism. The same racism that went around beating the "english should be the official language of Utah" drum. I'm also not ever moving back in case it passes. That's how serious this is. What I find interesting is conservatives who aren't even around the border calling liberals who are around the border arm chair critics.

Even more hilarious are conservatives who bitch and moan about the jobs lost to illegals just because hector just washed their dishes on the way back to shopping at walmart where everything buyable was made in china.

Multi-nationals sending *ALL* jobs to china or Lupe washing your dishes. Conservatives who can't point to the problem in this scenario are either fucking imbeciles or racist. Line up and pick your favorite badge.

Well this isn't really the scope of the problem at all. Obviously the illegals aren't getting the best jobs but still, they're willing to work for less than minimum wage and can operate "off the books" so yeah many companies don't have a problem hiring them and that is a problem for us. Even if it is just farm and factory, our economy isn't exactly super healthy and there are a lot of people on welfare/unemployment who would like those jobs.

Don't take this the wrong way you sound like someone who has never really experienced Mexican drug violence or has never lived in a neighborhood (as I have) where most people DON'T speak English. I remember a laundromat that had a "we speak English" sign, and taking it to be kind of confrontational until I realized that many of the businesses in the area DIDN'T have many English-speaking employees. It's not a huge problem but if we get huge influxes of people that don't speak English you can see how it would be.