Obama selects Joe Biden

[kagenaki koe]

Originally Posted by cured

there are plenty of retards out there who's vote will be decided on sound bites that have absolutely nothing to do with policy OR FACTS

appended

[Sarcasmo]

I think I might need help coming back from the camp of people who see this as a bad choice. Obama's whole campaign has been about the need to get away from politics as usual and make some changes, and he selects a running mate that's just as establishment as they come, seeing as Biden's been in politics longer than many of us have been alive. Plus, I can't help but see a little insecurity in Obama in picking someone who seems to be everything he's not, namely an international relations and foreign policy guru. It just seems like it highlights, instead of offsets, his weaknesses. To top it all off, Obama's campaign, until a few weeks ago, was surprisingly positive and free of the nastiness that McCain was all too willing to indulge in. Now he's brought in someone who's no stranger to negative attack ads, and who's more than willing to go toe to toe in the mud. Call me cynical, but it also seems to me that the choice of a politically institutionalized white male is a good damned way for the Democratic establishment to keep Obama from trying to stir the shit TOO much. I don't know. I need help understanding this one.

[gambit]

I think just about anyone Obama picked was going to be someone who was a long established politician. I don't think picking someone with as little or less Washington experience than himself would help his campaign any. Obama has been gradually moving towards the center ever since he won the nomination, and I think Biden is a way to soften the edges around him for some of those people (including Hillary supporters) who still aren't sure who to vote for.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

I think I might need help coming back from the camp of people who see this as a bad choice. Obama's whole campaign has been about the need to get away from politics as usual and make some changes, and he selects a running mate that's just as establishment as they come, seeing as Biden's been in politics longer than many of us have been alive. Plus, I can't help but see a little insecurity in Obama in picking someone who seems to be everything he's not, namely an international relations and foreign policy guru. It just seems like it highlights, instead of offsets, his weaknesses. To top it all off, Obama's campaign, until a few weeks ago, was surprisingly positive and free of the nastiness that McCain was all too willing to indulge in. Now he's brought in someone who's no stranger to negative attack ads, and who's more than willing to go toe to toe in the mud. Call me cynical, but it also seems to me that the choice of a politically institutionalized white male is a good damned way for the Democratic establishment to keep Obama from trying to stir the shit TOO much. I don't know. I need help understanding this one.

i would suggest you look into biden's history and voting record before you write him off as a washington insider or tool of the establishment. the man has had a long and extremely honorable career.

seems like a silly set of priorities to throw the baby out with the bathwater if all you're interested in is the "zero experience = change" concept. a long career doesn't automatically make someone incapable of forging changing and positive policies.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by cacophony

i would suggest you look into biden's history and voting record before you write him off as a washington insider or tool of the establishment. the man has had a long and extremely honorable career.

seems like a silly set of priorities to throw the baby out with the bathwater if all you're interested in is the "zero experience = change" concept. a long career doesn't automatically make someone incapable of forging changing and positive policies.

He just wants to be able to get his hard drugs and thinks Demo don't do them. Or something.

NEWS FLASH Sarcasmo! Daddies shouldn't be doing hard drugs, so looks like your partyin' days are limited. Wait a minute, there are some daddies that do hard drugs, but they are like the pervert breed of the definition.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

uuuuum, OK, with this, am I in trouble or is she cheering me on?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/...ion/index.html

[Sarcasmo]

Originally Posted by cacophony

i would suggest you look into biden's history and voting record before you write him off as a washington insider or tool of the establishment. the man has had a long and extremely honorable career.

seems like a silly set of priorities to throw the baby out with the bathwater if all you're interested in is the "zero experience = change" concept. a long career doesn't automatically make someone incapable of forging changing and positive policies.

Don't assume that I haven't looked into his career. I take into consideration that his biggest financial backer his entire career has been MBNA, that over his 35 years in office, has received $214,000 in campaign contributions from them, and was the key architect of what Sen. Chris Dodd called "one of the worst bills ever," the bankruptcy law which shifted the risk for engaging in predatory lending practices from predatory lenders to the borrowers, which has had a huge impact in our current housing foreclosure crisis. He's an architect of another incredibly important piece of legislation; the Anti-Drug Abuse law of 1986, which included mandatory minimum sentencing that can be credited with a world record prison population. While I don't hold his vote authorizing the Iraq war against him, he's voted for every single funding bill that Bush/Cheney has thrown his way. Not to mention his vote to reauthorize the PATRIOT act after it was due to expire. I probably should have brought all this up in my original post, but it was late and I was tired. I'm just a little concerned that after Obama got to where he is on the perception that he wasn't another cog in the machine, he chooses a running mate that's as entrenched as they come in Washington.

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

...a running mate that's as entrenched as they come in Washington.

i'm not yet interested in coming back full time to this forum so i'm not going to debate all of the little points. i will say that there isn't a single politician in washington, regardless of the duration of his/her career, where you couldn't find votes to disagree with. the longer a person's career, the more opportunity they have to do or say things you don't agree with. no one is your mirror image. you just have to decide who matches up as well as is possible. if biden doesn't match up for you, then so be it. you don't have to like his record. but it seems silly to make his longevity your sticking point. using words like "entrenched" and "washington insider" says nothing about your opinion of his record. it just says you're equating short-term careers with more integrity. which makes very little sense.

if you have a problem with his record while in office, then make that your problem. don't just vex about how he's been in office for 35 years as though experience automatically means corruption.

[dubman]

so we've seen a lot about biden and to me it all seems pretty decent in a nervous sort of way. like it could be something great or terrifically awkward, but i remember seing him on the daily show some years ago that made a lasting impression and why i might be biased because it was just too good.

stewart: see here's what i like about you... you dont care. you've been around for 35 years and you you will say things that politicians normally have to be so cautious about, is it timidity?

biden: well, you do have to be careful because i've gotten myself into trouble before. hell, i might have been president if i hadnt said that i had an uncle who was a coal miner. turned out he never even been in the coal mines! i mean, i tried all that crap...
but i actually thought it! i'm from scranton, pa so i figured there had to be one somewhere in the family...

stewart: nothin, huh?

biden: nothin! i mean, i- it was an engineer! it was a stab in the dark and i found out he graduated from lehigh.

edit: oh i found a link to the vid actually (google: biden, daily show, i tried that crap): http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...Sen.-Joe-Biden

[kagenaki koe]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

I'm just a little concerned that after Obama got to where he is on the perception that he wasn't another cog in the machine, he chooses a running mate that's as entrenched as they come in Washington.

you make it sound like Biden will be in charge of Obama.