stem cell research

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

My point here is that if the people in charge are employing religious arguments then opponents, you or me, are more effective assuming the language of religion. handwaving and dismissing it all as fairy tales, while emotionally satisfying, just ends the debate.

Sure, and I largely accept that, certainly in the sense that if the intention is to convince someone of the merit of an argument, then constantly scoffing about the Sky Pixie is only going to make them dig their heels in deeper. I understand that, and wasn't intending to suggest that that's the approach I'd take if ever in the situation of trying to sway a religious person's point of view.

The difficulty as I see it though, is that if religion IS the bottom line for those opponents, if we've debunked their argument and pointed out various contradictions and absurdities, and they're left with no option but to resort to the ultimate dogma "because the Good Lord tells us so", then how on earth do we successfully argue against that? Can you give any examples of how, by assuming the language of religion, such people could be convinced, without us coming across as, well, insincere and false? Because that's the whole problem of religion isn't it? That every convincing argument to the contrary is viewed as a test of faith, rather than on its own merit - and embryonic stem cell research is a classic example of that. Religion actually represents THE obstacle to accepting any alternative position at odds with what they think they're allowed to think. I appreciate what we don't do: ridicule and sneer and denigrate. But I genuinely have no idea what we DO do other than continue to calmly make the case FOR this kind of research - in ethical and philosophical terms (perhaps that's what you meant) - while, in the background, the enormously gradual process of encouraging people to relinquish the shackles of religion and have the confidence to think for themselves continues slowly and surely with education and scientific progress.

I know I said I didn't want to derail this thread by going into religion, but I guess it's unavoidable.