Do you feel guilty about downloading OwB?

[galama]

I stumbled upon the link few days ago and i quickly turned away while trying to strike ALT F4. I don't want it. Two more weeks and i'll have the ultime soyokaze of smelling the foil wrapped around OWB

[negative1]

Originally Posted by holden

I'm not going to convince anyone that has already downloaded it that they shouldn't have. And i doubt anyone feels guilty anyway. In fact, "yes i feel guilty" was not even an option in the poll.

hmm...one user so far has used the 'undecided' option..

-1

[BrotherLovesDub]

no personal offense to you holden. i felt as if you were looking down on those who downloaded and you were taking a moral high road that assumed your stance was superiour.

here's a question for you holden. if you found a promo copy of the japanese collectors set in your local used cd shop before October 16, would you buy it?

[dubman]

Originally Posted by holden

But don't insult me for my views.

why not
i think it's silly
it's entirely predicated on release dates as being a sacred date that shouldn't be broken and decides whether it's stealing or not.
it's already paid for.
and you're resenting everyone talking about it because you havent heard it yet and we're spoiling it.
it's selfish and silly.
it's silly even having this conversation again and again
this thread should be jettisoned

[holden]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

no personal offense to you holden. i felt as if you were looking down on those who downloaded and you were taking a moral high road that assumed your stance was superiour.

here's a question for you holden. if you found a promo copy of the japanese collectors set in your local used cd shop before October 16, would you buy it?

It's cool.

Hmmm, well, the japanese release date is October 3, so if i was lucky enough to find the promo, yes, i'd buy it, provided it was official (i.e. not a copy) as it's out when it was supposed to be out. i never understood why different regions had different release dates, or different versions for that matter...makes he rest of the world feel slighted!

To your earlier point that most of the people who post here and downloaded the leak are true fans and will buy the CD anyway...i totally agree with you. But note that there are also a lot of new members on here. Let's hope they will also go any buy it. The leak links have appeared on other boards i've seen, and i dunno if those are fans who will go and buy it. One can't tell, but it's just realistic to expect that for everyone who does buy it, there's quite a few less albums sold becuase someone was happy enough with the rip.

[BrotherLovesDub]

holden, the laws about buying and selling promos are black and white. it is illegal for shops to sell promos. it says so on the promo sticker. that copy belongs to the record label. the scenario is no different. both ways you're illegally obtaining the album before it's released to your region. these laws aren't enforced, but it's still illegal. it's just what laws you choose to follow.

[holden]

Originally Posted by dubman

why not
i think it's silly
it's entirely predicated on release dates as being a sacred date that shouldn't be broken and decides whether it's stealing or not.
it's already paid for.
and you're resenting everyone talking about it because you havent heard it yet and we're spoiling it.
it's selfish and silly.
it's silly even having this conversation again and again
this thread should be jettisoned

You're silly!
And yeah, you are spoiling it for me and others, too, so where's the selfishness in that? I'd say it's selfish to take more than you should.

But i'm apparently greatly outnumbered and not getting through.
So yes, let's jettison the thread and agree to disagree.
No hard feelings.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by holden

To your earlier point that most of the people who post here and downloaded the leak are true fans and will buy the CD anyway...i totally agree with you. But note that there are also a lot of new members on here. Let's hope they will also go any buy it. The leak links have appeared on other boards i've seen, and i dunno if those are fans who will go and buy it. One can't tell, but it's just realistic to expect that for everyone who does buy it, there's quite a few less albums sold becuase someone was happy enough with the rip.

To the best of my knowledge, the person that leaked this was not a Dirt and certainly did not announce on here that he/she had leaked it. I doubt if they even read the boards. It was out there. Once something has been leaked, it is obviously a personal matter as to whether one wants to listen to it in advance or not, but there is nothing an individual can do to prevent its dissemination. Once the damn is burst, it is pointless trying to gather water in a bucket and take it back up to the other side of the river again.

If I was given a promo copy of something with a "not to be distributed" caveat on it, I most certainly would not leak it to all and sundry the way this was. But the fact is, it is out there for all and sundry, fan or not, potential buyer or not, to leech to their heart's content. I would rather it wasn't but that is a sad fact of life these days.

Yes, it is damaging to the band when stuff is leaked. Without a doubt. But do I think that fans from a fansite downloading this is damaging them any further, once that initial leak has happened? Absolutely not. The analogy to the extra pack of chips in the supermarket doesn't quite work somehow.

[big screen satellite]

Originally Posted by holden

To your earlier point that most of the people who post here and downloaded the leak are true fans and will buy the CD anyway...i totally agree with you. But note that there are also a lot of new members on here. Let's hope they will also go any buy it. The leak links have appeared on other boards i've seen, and i dunno if those are fans who will go and buy it. One can't tell, but it's just realistic to expect that for everyone who does buy it, there's quite a few less albums sold becuase someone was happy enough with the rip.

i'm seriously of the opinion that the people who generally download albums are within (at least) three types -

those who download, and go on to buy the product when it is physically available - the long standing real fans... most of the people here...

those who download, just to listen to the material and then decide that its something that they like and then go back and buy the actual product (and even more material by the band) - i have personally done this - and as such a free, and illegal, download has resulted in my purchasing an album - which i might not have done previously

and

those who download, because they want to hear the album because its free, but would never have bought it in the first place - not actually a loss in sales...

in the 'old days' they would have likely have copied it off a friend, if it was recommened to them, like we used to do with cassettes back in the 80's - my mates used to copy albums they liked, and give me albums i'd never have bought anyway, so in effect the band were never losing out and actually gaining a 'fan' through this sharing...

its a difficult argument, but i honestly think enough people buy product in one way or another...

1 billion plus paid for downloads on itunes (at their extortionate rate of charging) is testment to the fact that people are still willing to pay for materials... i'd like to see stats, but no one will ever be able to verify properly that 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale - which they try and do with things like movie downloads...

when the phantom menace came out, fox claimed that x million downloads meant x million people didn't go see the movie or buy the dvd, which simply wasn't the case, i went to see the movie, came back and downloaded it, then bought the dvd... anyone who wanted to see the movie (as an event at the theatre) would have gone and paid to see it, those who illegally downloaded it, either went on to see it or had seen it, or were never gonna go see it in the first place...

i don't agree with people making money out of copying - i.e. dvd pirates, but sharing a good product is fair, imo

[geoff]

Let's be honest, there is definitely a 4th category of people who pirate instead of buying, flat out. I have friends who even pirate from their favorite bands.

But the "try and buy" people do somewhat make up for that. I too have bought quite a few records after pirating them. I always try to purchase something if i enjoyed it enough to warrant another listen.

Obviously, the "never would have bought in the first place" and the "definitely would have bought in the first place" people don't tip the scales either way.

So it's not as bad as the RIAA makes it out to be. It's definitely NOT 1 download = 1 lost sale. That's for sure.