so.. @ karl and rick

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by holden

Lookit what Karl's listening to today: and follow the link!
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/d...p?rev=guru-ufo

HAH!

Do you think the term "nar nar ner nar nar" sounds a bit childish coming from me?

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by holden

Lookit what Karl's listening to today: and follow the link!
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/d...p?rev=guru-ufo

But wait! Guru Guru falls more into the Krautrock category than anything else. Generally a lot of prog sites recognize krautrock as a subset of prog, which it *kinda* is, in a way.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

But wait! Guru Guru falls more into the Krautrock category than anything else. Generally a lot of prog sites recognize krautrock as a subset of prog, which it *kinda* is, in a way.

Yeah... keep digging, you're doing fine so far....

[stimpee]

Originally Posted by holden

p.s. number of posters on a thread isn't evidence against there being more prog fans amongs the registered dirties.

im hearing static here. to whom was bryantm3 referring then? the uncounted and voiceless prog rock-underworld masses? anyway, its a moot (and mute) point.

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards.

[holden]

Originally Posted by stimpee

im hearing static here. to whom was bryantm3 referring then? the uncounted and voiceless prog rock-underworld masses? anyway, its a moot (and mute) point.

Sez you!
How is it that even the UW polls get only 30-40 votes for an option, and these are the UW boards fer cryin' out loud. Therefore, i think having a dozen or so people voice their interest in progressive music and, heaven forbid, something more modern, is a pretty good response. And thanks for always considering my and others' opinion on this matter as moot. You're incorrigible, and even if Karl said he listened to King Crimson 24 hours a day for the past 30 years will it make an impression. That's fine, be dismissive...unfortunately such replies always come off as trying to silence other people's opinions you don't agree with. Is that the Moderator's job?

Originally Posted by stimpee

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards.

Too bad prog dates from the mid 60's.

But i'll admit that this is like beating a dead horse every time this issue is raised. i'm letting it drop. Forget i ever had any opinion on the matter. Now please have the last word. (rant over. It's been a rough week...don't take it too personally )
holden

[stimpee]

Originally Posted by holden

Sez you!
How is it that even the UW polls get only 30-40 votes for an option, and these are the UW boards fer cryin' out loud. Therefore, i think having a dozen or so people voice their interest in progressive music and, heaven forbid, something more modern, is a pretty good response.

so now its a "dozen or so". i said less than that its an opinion of a few (and THAT is the moot point, not the opinions on the music.) just because someone states an influence doesnt mean that everyone has to agree with it.

Originally Posted by holden

And thanks for always considering my and others' opinion on this matter as moot. You're incorrigible, and even if Karl said he listened to King Crimson 24 hours a day for the past 30 years will it make an impression. That's fine, be dismissive...unfortunately such replies always come off as trying to silence other people's opinions you don't agree with. Is that the Moderator's job?

There's being dismissive and then theres putting forward another argument which I believe is more valid, and that is the Krautrock argument. And Karl didnt say that he was explicitly influenced by prog rock so that should be enough to quieten this argument also (especially as Guru Guru are regarded by most as Krautrock, and Tangerine Dream certainly are). What has irked me has been the insinuation that Krautrock has had no influence and that prog rock has, (while you may argue is the reverse). I'm not the one who started not one, but two threads on the subject. And please dont bring my moderator status into any of these discussions.

Originally Posted by holden

Too bad prog dates from the mid 60's.

I hardly think that prog rock had such a hold in the publics imagination and certainly not in the Western german music scene as to influence Can/Faust/Kraftwerk/Tangerine Dream/Neu and Conny Plank's studio in Cologne as to be considered a splinter of prog rock.

Originally Posted by holden

But i'll admit that this is like beating a dead horse every time this issue is raised. i'm letting it drop. Forget i ever had any opinion on the matter. Now please have the last word. (rant over. It's been a rough week...don't take it too personally )
holden

Sorry about my not letting go, but the feeling that Genesis or Yes could have influenced Underworld really got under my skin, as I'm guessing that the people arguing about this havent heard any of the stuff that I've been talking about (yes I have heard lots of prog rock) and that 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j has been mentioning.

What I will admit is that if there is an influence by prog rock on Underworld, then there is a far greater influence by Krautrock on the band.

I certainly dont want to say any more on the subject either. No hard feelings, certainly not.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by stimpee

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards.

I'm not saying it is a subset, but a lot of prog sites consider it as such. A lot of prog sites like Ground and Sky or Progarchives review a lot of krautrock, because the genre is appealing to prog fans and has many of the same elements...mostly an affinity toward longer compositions and instrumental brilliance (it would be hard to deny that Can weren't one of the most talented bands to ever exist...the band's ability to jam is just unmatched). Of course, prog is a pretty tough genre to define anyway...but as far as dates go, I'll just take your word for it that 1968 was the date for krautrock...and while prog didn't get popular until In The Court... came out in '69, I do believe that The Nice started the genre in 1967. But I really doubt that Neu and Can were influenced by The Nice

But anyway bryant, just for future reference, if you do really like prog, you should check out these albums - coming from me, I was a HUGE prog-head last year, but these albums really jumped out at me for being something special:

Can - Tago Mago
Neu! - '75
Faust - Faust IV

...all of these are pretty accessible (although Tago Mago has a huge freakout on the second half, the first half is so mindblowing the album is easily one of my favorites), and sound a lot more similar to UW than any prog does.

Oh well, just a suggestion. Stimp, if you've any suggestions feel free to add, especially for myself, because I have yet to really hear a lot of Amon Duul or Tangerine Dream and would love some suggestions if you have any. I don't think this topic is beating a dead horse or a moot point...although it is confusing to have 2 threads on the topic, it's still a good discussion. Debate and argument isn't unnecessary...that's what drives a message board! Right?

[BeautifulBurnout]

WHOAH!

Why is it this topic generates so much argument (as opposed to discussion)?

All we are doing is musing, some seeing similarities, others not. It is not worth getting our knickers in a knot about, is it people?

Holden: Do remember that just because Stimpee is Moderator, that doesn't mean he has to have an opinion bypass. I take his opinions for what they are. His opinions. Not something that he is trying to "dictate" to anyone.

Stimps: Is it really so heinous, the thought that Rick or Karl might have listened to, and been influenced by, the likes of Crimson, Yes, Genesis, ELP etc? Would it make you hate UW if you found out they were? No. So don't let it "get under your skin".

You are not the same age as Rick and Karl. When they were teenagers (and when I was a teenager) until punk came along big-style in 76, there was nothing much going on except Prog on the one side, Soul in the middle and Cheesy Disco on the other side - sweeping generalisation I know, but that was how it seemed to me at the time. It is easy to look back and criticise Prog Heads, but that was the cutting edge of experimental music. The Krautrock genre may have started up at around the same time, but the definition as a different genre didn't happen until much later. Tangerine Dream was considered to be Prog in the 70s. So all of this is just splitting hairs infinitessimally. And that is only my opinion.